NFL (Pats Still Rule)

[coclarkson]

It's football time! here are my predictions:

AFC

Patriots 12-4
Dolphins 10-6
Jets 8-8
Bills 5-11

Ravens 10-6
Bengals 9-7
Browns 6-10
Steelers 6-10

Colts 13-3
Titans 9-7
Jaguars 9-7
Texans 4-12

Chiefs 11-5
Broncos 9-7
Raiders 8-8
Chargers 6-10

Div winners: Chiefs, Colts, Ravens, Patriots
Wild card: Dolphins, Bengals
AFC champions: Colts

NFC

Eagles 11-5
Redskins 9-7
Cowboys 8-8
Giants 6-10

Packers 10-6
Vikings 10-6
Bears 5-11
Lions 4-12

Buccs 10-6
Panthers 8-8
Falcons 8-8
Saints 7-9

Rams 11-5
Seahawks 10-6
Cardinals 4-12
49ers 4-12

Div winners: Rams, Buccs, Packers, Eagles
Wild card: Seahawks, Vikings
NFC champions: Eagles

Super Bowl: Eagles 24 Colts 20
Super Bowl MVP: Terrell Owens
NFL MVP: Donavan McNabb
NFL Coach of the year: Tony Dungy
NFC Rookie of the year: Roy Williams, Lions
AFC Rookie of the year: Kellen Winslow, Browns

[Supafly]

Div winners: Packers,
Wild card: Vikings
Come on Co Were's the love? The Vikings spank the Packers every year. Don't get me wrong Bret Farve is a living legend but he needs a team and a time machine.:wink:

[coclarkson]

if it wasn't for a 4th and 20 conversion last season, the packers would've beaten the eagles and went on to the NFC tiltle game. I see them having another solid year, and Ahmed Green is the best back in the NFL. The vikings always lose critical games, like the NFC title game vs the Falcons, and last years season finale vs the cardinals. the vikes and the pack will split the regular season meetings but the vikings will lose more div games.

[Black]

AFC

Div winners: Chiefs, Colts, Ravens, Dolphins
Wild card: Patriots, Bengals
AFC champions: Chiefs


NFC

Div winners: Rams, Buccs, Packers, Cowboys
Wild card: Eagles, Vikings
NFC champions: Cowboys


Super Bowl: Cowboys 31 Chiefs 28
Super Bowl MVP: Keyshawn Johnson
NFL MVP: Priest Holmes
NFL Coach of the year: Bill Parcells
NFC Rookie of the year: Drew Henson, Cowboys
AFC Rookie of the year: Kellen Winslow, Browns

[Supafly]

The vikings always lose critical games like last years season finale vs the cardinals.

Not sure what you mean. That was just a bad dream wasn't it? :cry:

[coclarkson]

Super Bowl: Cowboys 31 Chiefs 28
Super Bowl MVP: Keyshawn Johnson
NFL MVP: Priest Holmes
NFL Coach of the year: Bill Parcells
NFC Rookie of the year: Drew Henson, Cowboys
AFC Rookie of the year: Kellen Winslow, Browns

obviously a cowboys fan. if Julius Jones can handle 20+ carries a game they have a shot. i think quincy carter will start this season and Henson taking over next year. i'm just not sold on thier running back situation. Parcells did draft Curtis Martin in the second round so who knows?

[Gonjawolverine]

I can't belive you guys are not giving the Patriots their props. 15 wins in a row, 2 Superbowl wins in three years and they are going to be even better this year.
http://img47.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Brady4.jpghttp://img47.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Law2.jpg
Can't fuck with the Wolverines

[coclarkson]

colts v.s pats in AFC championship game. colts win. hell they almost beat them last year even with 4 turnovers from Manning. they'll get over the hump and smack them this year. Gonja: I'll see you in November-Go Bucks, Lydell Ross for Heisman :filp:

[Gonjawolverine]

Gonja: I'll see you in November-Go Bucks, Lydell Ross for Heisman :filp:
Come on coclarkson, the college football thread hasn't even started yet. I was at the Big House on November 22nd, and your boy Lydell Ross had 9 attempts for all of 22 yards rushing and to be as nice as possible, was not very impressive. But back to your point about the Colts. I'll take the Patriots defense vs. the Colts offense any day of the week. Because I know Indy can't stop the Great Tom Brady.
http://img47.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Brady7.jpg
GO BLUE!

[war|forever]

patriots go undefeated ala '72 dolphins.

[Zinista]

Not happy with the 49ers prediction! :? :? :?

[KABOOM]

C'mon now. Give my Chiefs a chance here. I think they will go 16-0, almost did it last year if it hadn't been for the damn Bengals. They messed us up. We now have an even better defense and an even more unstoppable offense.

[bacardi]

well coclark and black, atleast we all agree that the ravens will win the division but i've said it twice and this will be the third and final time
RAVENS WILL BEAT THE EAGLES IN THE SUPERBOWL!

[coclarkson]

Not happy with the 49ers prediction! :? :? :?

look on the bright side, they will have a high draft pick, maybe #1

Kevan Barlow will have a great year, but the recievers, QB, and offensive line are horrible. luckily they play Arizona twice. Defensively, they have one of the better LBs in the game, Julian Peterson. the corners are pathetic and bryant young is getting old and slow. shouldv'e kept Marriucci.

[war|forever]

alright, i'll be a little more explicit (ala "da bears" from SNL)--

superbowl:
patriots/eagles

final score:
new england 16,422
philadelphia 2

[DoubleJJ619]

AFC

Patriots 14-2 (Don't want to see it but will more than likely happen)
Dolphins 9-7
Jets 7-9
Bills 5-11

Ravens 9-7
Bengals 8-8
Steelers 8-8
Browns 6-10

Titans 12-4
Colts 11-5
Jaguars 8-8
Texans 6-10

Chiefs 11-5
Broncos 9-7
Raiders 8-8
Chargers 6-10

Div winners: Patriots, Ravens, Titans, Chiefs
Wild card: Colts, Dolphins
AFC champions: Patriots

NFC

Eagles 12-4
Cowboys 10-6
Redskins 7-9
Giants 6-10

Vikings 11-5
Packers 10-6
Bears 6-10
Lions 6-10

Bucs 9-7
Falcons 8-8
Panthers 8-8
Saints 7-9

Rams 11-5
Seahawks 8-8
49ers 6-10
Cardinals 4-12

Div winners: Eagles, Vikings, Bucs, Rams
Wild card: Packers, Cowboys
NFC champions: Eagles

Super Bowl: Eagles 17 Patriots 13
Super Bowl MVP: Donavan McNabb
NFL MVP: Tom Brady
NFL Coach of the year: Eagles Coach ???
NFC Rookie of the year: Roy Williams, Lions
AFC Rookie of the year: Kellen Winslow, Browns

[KABOOM]

AFC

Patriots 12-4
Dolphins 9-7
Jets 8-8
Bills 6-10

Ravens 10-6
Bengals 9-7
Steelers 7-9
Browns 3-13

Colts 12-4
Titans 11-5
Jaguars 8-8
Texans 7-9

Chiefs 15-1
Broncos 8-8
Raiders 6-10
Chargers 1-15

Div winners: Chiefs, Colts, Ravens, Patriots
Wild card:Titans, Bengals
AFC Champs: Chiefs

NFC

Eagles 13-3
Cowboys 11-5
Redskins 8-8
Giants 5-11

Vikings 10-6
Packers 9-7
Lions 6-10
Bears 5-11

Panthers 11-5
Saints 9-7
Falcons 8-8
Bucs 4-12

Seahawks 10-6
Rams 10-6
49ers 7-9
Cardinals 5-11

Div. winners: Eagles, Vikings, Panthers, Seahawks
Wild Card: Cowboys, Rams
NFC Champs: Eagles

Super Bowl: Chiefs 20, Eagles 19
Super Bowl MVP: Trent Green
NFL MVP: Priest Holmes
NFL Coach of the Year: Andy Reid
NFC Rookie of the Year: Roy Williams
AFC Rookie of the Year: Kellen Winslow

[Gonjawolverine]

patriots go undefeated ala '72 dolphins.
alright, i'll be a little more explicit (ala "da bears" from SNL)--

superbowl:
patriots/eagles

final score:
new england 16,422
philadelphia 2
Nice. :headbang:

[Asian Sensation]

Not happy with the 49ers prediction! :? :? :?

look on the bright side, they will have a high draft pick, maybe #1

Kevan Barlow will have a great year, but the recievers, QB, and offensive line are horrible. luckily they play Arizona twice. Defensively, they have one of the better LBs in the game, Julian Peterson. the corners are pathetic and bryant young is getting old and slow. shouldv'e kept Marriucci.

Tim Rattay isn't that bad. I remember last year when Garcia was out, Tim filled his boots for awhile and won a game or two, which is pretty amazing for a guy coming right off of the bench. Also, Ken Dorsey is an up and coming QB for SF. The 49ers just drafted a couple of recievers, but we'll see how they do in the season. As far as Corners go, they still have Ahmad Plummer who I think is a decent corner. I think they should've kept the Mooch too, I hate Erickson and what he's doing to the 49ers. He's turning them into shit. I don't think they'll do well this year, but I definately think they can get more than 4 wins, and they are still better than the cardinals.

[Gonjawolverine]

The Detroit Lions would like to thank the 49ers for Coach Mariucci. A few seasons ago we had the student, Marty Morningweg. Now we have the teacher. Thank you 49er brass for wanting a shitty coach and giving up your good coach. Bill Walsh you rock.

[coclarkson]

i'm anxious to see how the lions play with 2 studs at wr, Roy Williams and Charles Rogers. also with Kevin Jones in the backfield. they're set for the next 10 years. i think if Harrington doesn't do well in the first 5-6 games, Mooch will go with Mike Mcmahon. that is if McMahon isn't traded by then. Matt Millen takes alot of shit for some of his decision making but it's all coming together for him and the team now. they'll struggle this year but should develop into a good team in the future.

[Gonjawolverine]

i'm anxious to see how the lions play with 2 studs at wr, Roy Williams and Charles Rogers. also with Kevin Jones in the backfield. they're set for the next 10 years. i think if Harrington doesn't do well in the first 5-6 games, Mooch will go with Mike Mcmahon. that is if McMahon isn't traded by then. Matt Millen takes alot of shit for some of his decision making but it's all coming together for him and the team now. they'll struggle this year but should develop into a good team in the future.
Last year the problem was not Joey Harrington, it was his whack-ass recieving corp. Everytime he threw the ball to an open reciever, he would either drop it or bat the ball into the air to a defender. That is one of the reasons Joey has so many picks. It was pretty pathetic when the best reciever on the team was a rookie, injured, and out for the season after 3 games. This season the Lions dropped the dead weight (Bill Schroder) and added another blue chip to the team. They say that it take 3 years for a rookie QB to become completly adapted to the NFL. Well, this is year 3 for Mr. Harrington. So, me and a lot of win desperate Lion fans are waiting for something good to happen. Every offseason we are optimistic. This offseason gives us even more hope.

[war|forever]

the countdown at the top of nbcolympics.com (http://www.nbcolympics.com/index.html) is obviously for the games, but i believe opening night in athens is also the start to the PATRIOTS preseason (http://www.patriots.com/games/Season.sps?season=0) right here at home.

therefore, although i'm not a huge olympic fan, the countdown still has it's uses :wink: :lol: 8)

[Black]

I bet $1,000,000,000, Patriots will do horrible, C'mon admit they suck that was luck last year even thought I went for them in the Super Bowl

Cant fucking beleive Cowboys let Steven Jackson go!!!!! :evil: :pissed: :jawdrop: :bigcry: :chainsaw:

[Gray Fo]

8-8? How could the Cowboys get WORSE?



The defense is exactly the same except for Marcellus Wiley at DE, which is an actual UPGRADE. Add that along with a new, young running back and an improving Quincy Carter, I don't see how they could do worse than last year.



Oh yeah, they also have probably the best coach in the last two decades, unless you count Landry's last few years.


Edit: And I GARUNTEE that the Redskins will finish third in the division at best, Gibbs or no Gibbs.

[Gonjawolverine]

C'mon admit they suck that was luck last year even thought I went for them in the Super Bowl
Last season, besides winning the Superbowl for the second time in three years and 15 games in a row. Their regular season record was 14-2, the best in the NFL. Oh yes, and the best QB in the buisness.
The Great Tom Brady.
http://img47.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Brady9.jpg
So yeah, at 14-2, they suck. This season they should be 16-0.

[Epc525]

Why does everyone think that the eagles are going to do so good. Is T. Owens gonna play cornerback cuz they have none. They lost both Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent. If they play agianst any teams with a good passing game it is over. Come on guys, Lito Shepard is gonna be a starting cornerback.

[IHateHonda]

new England should do damn good again this year with the signing of Dillon at RB tho they did fine without much of a running game last season...

Eagles look to be the best in the nfc, Andy Reid prolly wont get nfl coach of the year because his team has been good the past 3 or 4 years, look for a coach of a team thats not supposed to be good, and does suprisingly well to be coach of the year, I see it going to Tom Coughlin in NY or up to mariucci in Detroit, Those teams look to be the most promising of all the cellar dwellars from last year. These two just might shock the whole NFL. Dallas will finish strong again, tho I hate the cowpies...

[coclarkson]

i think the surprise team may be the Houston Texans. David Carr is in his third year in the offense and with AFC rookie of the year Dominick Davis runnig the ball behind a solid o-line, they will be tough to stop. they also have some burners at the wr position in Andre Johnson and Jabaar Gaffney. they also picked up TE Mark Bruener from the steelers. thier defense is getting better, they have probowler aaron glenn at corner and first round pick jason babin at defensive end. they're in a tough div along with indy, jacksonville, and tenn. but they could win at least 8-9 games.
http://img47.exs.cx/img47/6346/a28.jpg
Davis had 1,031 yards rushing along with 8 tds. he played in 14 games and started 10 of those games

[IHateHonda]

yea, I was thinkin Houston as well, but i think they need one more year ya know. One more year to develop more and become a good working unit. Maybe they will win 8, they def could this year I see them just missing the playoffs tho this season, but definatly improving

[BJ4015]

anfortynately New England is the team to beat. They didn't loose much and added one of the best running backs in football.

By the way Gonjawolverine, Tom Brady is the most overrated QB in the NFL. He is a product of the system he is in. He is no better than fellow UM alum Brian Greise, who also benefited from a spectacular offense. I'd take Manning, McNair, Farve, Vick, etc. etc, over Brady any day of the week.

In the NFC, I like Seattle. Atlanta can be decent if Vick can stay healthy, which I don't think will happen.

[Gonjawolverine]

I'd take Manning, McNair, Farve, Vick, etc. etc, over Brady any day of the week.
All those QBs you just rattled off, How many Rings do they have, combined? Yeah, that's what I thought.
And Guess what, every great quarterback in NFL history is the product of a system. So to call him a system QB, as an insult? You got to come with a little more than that.

http://img47.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Brady8.jpg
What a Badass

[IHateHonda]

By the way Gonjawolverine, Tom Brady is the most overrated QB in the NFL. He is a product of the system he is in. He is no better than fellow UM alum Brian Greise, who also benefited from a spectacular offense.

The only difference is everything about these 2 qbs. Brian Griese has pretty much done jack shit so far. Brady is way better overall than Griese. Griese had that one decent season, but couldnt do anything with it. So far brady has had 2 great seasons outta the three he played and twice, pulled out a superbowl title and an MVP of the big game. Brady ranks right up there with the elite of the game.

Gonja is right on with this one. The system is wut makes a qb who he is. Some Qb are made for ex: the west coast offense. Others just wont fit into that scheme Ya know? But history proves that a good system produces a good quarterback. Delhomme, do you think he is that good? or was this past year a fluke? Hes a product, just like many others..

[MasterCool]

Does it really matter how overrated Brady is, hes won two Superbowls.

[IHateHonda]

Thats just the thing, hes not overated, the second superbowl proved that wrong.

Football season needs to arrive already, I need some hard hitting in my life again

[coclarkson]

if you want to talk about being overrated and a product of the system. HERE is your perfect example.
http://img2.exs.cx/img2/6314/a191.jpg
give me marshall faulk, torry holt, isaac bruce, a line anchored by orlando pace, and a system that consists of short slant, curl routes, and i'll win a super bowl. hell, ryan leaf couldv'e won the super bowl in the rams offense. warner will struggle in new york. i hope eli's ready.

as much as I hate Michigan product tom brady, his career is parallel to the greatest qb to ever play.
http://img16.exs.cx/img16/1293/a230.jpghttp://img2.exs.cx/img2/2681/a192.jpg

[BJ4015]

Are you trying to tell me Dan Marino was a product of a system?

Phil Simms has 2 rings also does that make him a great quarterback?

Doug Williams and Trent Dilfer have Super Bowl rings are they great also?

[KABOOM]

I believe everyone is overlooking on quaterback. His name is Trent Green. He passed for 4039 yds. and 24 TDs last season.

http://chiefszone.com/images/022803/s.chiefs.jpg

http://www.kcchiefs.com/images/downloads/trent_green_800x600.jpg

[Gray Fo]

Yeah, Aikmen won superbowls with two different systems.




He should've won 4, but that's besides the point.



*grumble*fucking cowboys got screwed damn refs stupid 49ers*grumble*

[Gonjawolverine]

Are you trying to tell me Dan Marino was a product of a system?

Phil Simms has 2 rings also does that make him a great quarterback?

Doug Williams and Trent Dilfer have Super Bowl rings are they great also?
Absolutly, Dan Marino is a one of the best ever. And yes, he was a product of the system in place. Does that take away from all of records? Hell No! To say that a Tom Brady is overrated and a system QB is just ludacris. Because every Quaterback is the product of a system. It's just some QB's have trouble with their systems or they are not very good. While others, master the ins and outs of their system, and those guys are the Great Ones. Do you think Drew Bledsoe is or was a good QB? He was in New England's System, How many rings does he have?

You are really reaching with the Doug Williams thing, Didn't Joe Gibbs win something like 3 superbowls with 3 different QBs. Why didn't you mention Mark Rypien or Joe Theismann. Do you think Coach Gibbs had a "System" in place?

Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Jim McMahon are good QBs who have won some bling-bling because of the awesome defenses on their team. They were good enought to Get'er done, but not great.

Remember all those QB's you rattled off earlier, Manning, McNair, Farve, Vick and you can add Elway, Montana, Marino, Starr, Unitas, Bradshaw, Namath, Basically any QB you can think of. Thru the first 4 years of the career of every Quarterback that has ever played NFL football, Do you know who has the best Winning Percentage?
http://img47.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Brady10.jpg
--------->Tom Brady .714<-------------

[wiley1]

I think it takes more than a couple great seasons in order for anybody to be called great.

We will have to watch Brady and see what he can do without a great supporting cast (if that will ever happen).

I think the true measure of a great quaterback is how well they last through their career. If he can't stay great for most of his career than he is just another one hit wonder.

And the other supposedly great qb Trent Green; the whole reason why KC did great last year was one man DANTE HALL.

I watched a lot of KC's games last year (and i freaking hate KC) just to see what that dude was going to pull off next.

[coclarkson]

winning percectage is a team stat, not an individual stat. if you want to compare qb stats look at completion percentage and touchdown passes. a great qb needs to complete his passes and get the ball into the endzone. nobody did that better than montana. brady's career has a similar start but he has a long way to go to be considered as good or better. as for Marino, he isn't overrated but his numbers are. he has most of the records but i would still take elway montana, young, favre, and a couple others before him. he never had a running game thus he threw 30-40 passes a game. and to point out the obvious, if you throw more than everyone, you're going to have more yards and tds than everyone.

[Gray Fo]

Yeah, well not all of those other Quaterbacks had Drew Bledsoe to learn his first 4 years.



And I automatically put Aikmen over Marino simply because of the three rings. It's not a knock against Marino, and you can say what you want about the support, the fact still remains.

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

gray fo ur crazy marino is the best quarterback to play the game and cmon aikman there aint no argument that marino is better....the record book says it all

[Gonjawolverine]

winning percectage is a team stat, not an individual stat. if you want to compare qb stats look at completion percentage and touchdown passes. a great qb needs to complete his passes and get the ball into the endzone. nobody did that better than montana. brady's career has a similar start but he has a long way to go to be considered as good or better. as for Marino, he isn't overrated but his numbers are. he has most of the records but i would still take elway montana, young, favre, and a couple others before him. he never had a running game thus he threw 30-40 passes a game. and to point out the obvious, if you throw more than everyone, you're going to have more yards and tds than everyone.
Coclarkson I know that winning percentage is a team stat, But you tell that to ESPN, where I got the stat from. And yes he may not be considered "Great" to you guys but to me he is the best, besides Mike Vick. If you have ever seen the New England Patriots NFL Films Superbowl Video, there was a part where Tedy Bruschi was talking about the when the panthers tied it up with something like 1:30 left and some guys we getting antsy on the sideline, but he was not worried he was telling his teamates,"Don't worry, we have Tom Brady. Tom Brady is on our team."
He knows how good Tom is. Dispite what you wonderful people say(jealous?),you do too.

[Gray Fo]

Dude, Marino is not better than Aikmen.

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

alrite gray u kno y aikmen had 3 rings or w/e...who was his running back again? i forgot his name #22....marino never had a decent running back never and he alqays had mediocore WR...remeber O.J Mcduffy u prolly dont well that was his best WR he had for a while and he had decent defenses never anythin overpowering excpept himself thats y he never won

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

as for brady hes a really good qb but i dont see him as another marino or montana ill take payton manning over him anyday...i forgot the statis on ty long did the patriots lose him yet? if they did or if they do there fucked that guy makes such a big impact on their defense so sorry to say but the patriots aint gonna be no 16-0 who do u think they r the '72 dolphins...remeber offense wins games DEFENSE wins championships...cuz ill tell u right now if the patriots lose ty long they will never stop the chiefs offense

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

my bad ******Ty Law......im not a patriot fan and i forgot his name

[Gonjawolverine]

as for brady hes a really good qb but i dont see him as another marino or montana ill take payton manning over him anyday...i forgot the statis on ty long did the patriots lose him yet? if they did or if they do there fucked that guy makes such a big impact on their defense so sorry to say but the patriots aint gonna be no 16-0 who do u think they r the '72 dolphins...remeber offense wins games DEFENSE wins championships...cuz ill tell u right now if the patriots lose ty long they will never stop the chiefs offense
Even though he grew up idolizing him,Tom Brady is not the next Joe Montana, there will never be another Joe Cool. But he is the first Tom Brady, and that is good enough. Peyton Manning is good, Tom Brady is better. Ty Law stopped crying about being underpaid, he is cool with Coach Belichick again. The Patriots might not go 16-0, but they sure will kick the Dolphins ass.

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

im a huge fin fan but ill give credit when credit is due and yes the patriots r gonna woop us..this season aint lookin to good for the dolphins but who knows

[IHateHonda]

Oh wow, This is what i get for falling asleep, Im missing a great arguement.. hehe

Of dan marino and troy aikman, Marino is by far the better QB. Marino never had the supporting cast the Aikman had, he never had a good running game, His O-line was never as big, even his D wasnt as strong as aikmans, yet he throughout is career, he threw the ball all over the place, all over any D he faced. Marino never could get that ring due to lack of talents his team had. Yes he was on some really good teams, but they were missing a few links. Dan has proven to be the better qb, just look at all the records he has his name on. Almost any QB coulda won in dallas those years. Ya i remember Mc DUffy , but Marino also at the begining had mark duper, who i thought to be a good reciever, and later in his career he had some other guy, wut was his name.. I forgot it at the moment But he seemed to be the go to guy.

As for tom brady...The next Joe? Maybe he comes close, But I see it when hes retired and young Qbs are coming up, they will say the next tom brady. The way peyton has been playing, he will rank right up there as well

[coclarkson]

Marino had the "marks brothers" mark duper and mark clayton

Peyton Manning is on pace to shatter all of Marinos records. he may end up being the greatest ever. just depends on whether he gets a ring or not. how does the top 5 qbs of all time stack up in your opinion?

mine would go like this:
1. Joe Montana
2. Johnny Unitas
3. John Elway
4. Brett Favre
5. Dan Marino

[Gonjawolverine]

All-Time Top 5 Quarterbacks, thats a tough one. Your list seems pretty good coclarkson. It is hard to judge the greatness of a player you have only seen old footage of like Unitas, Bradshaw, Layne, Dawson, or Starr. My List may be a little biased because of my lack of knowledge of the old players, But it goes a little something like this:

-----------#1. Joe Montana------------
-----------#2. John Elway-------------
-----------#3. Terry Bradshaw--------
-----------#4. Brett Farve-------------
-----------#5. Dan Marino-------------
------------------------------------------

[coclarkson]

No way that I would put Bradshaw in the top 5, not even the top 20. yes he has 4 super bowl wins and 2 super bowl mvp's but his team won because the steelers had the greatest defense of all time throughout the '70's. his career numbers: 27,975 pass yards 212 td passes 210 ints and a career completion percentage of 51.9 which is horrible. he's known for his postseason greatness but in 19 career playoff games he has 30 td passes and 26 ints. his completion pct is 57.2, hardly spectacular. I don't even think that he should be in the hall of fame. here is my next 5 best.

6. Steve Young
7. Otto Graham
8. Fran Tarkenton
9. Peyton Manning
10.Bart Starr

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

hold up elway b4 marino???? Y? and in the top 5 i would sub joe namath for bradshaw.....
1. dan marino
2. joe montana
3. john elway
4. joe namath
5. brett favre

[BJ4015]

First of all Marino is the greatest pure QB that has ever played the game.
Tom Brady is a winner, I will admit that, but he is alot like Kurt Warner was with the fact that he has tremendous amount of talent around him. The talent around those guys make them seem better than they really are. Granted the ultimate goal in football is to win the Super Bowl, but not once has one person won a super bowl by himself. It takes a team and I have no doubt if Bledsow never got hurt, he would have two ring right now also and Tom Brady would still be holding a clipboard.

As far as who's better Aikmen or Marino. All you have to do is ask the one person who would know better than anyone, Jimmy Johnson. As a matter of fact they did on Sportscenter when he was in the Budweiser Hot Seat. He said Troy is a great player and he loved him but Danny is the Greatest who has ever put on pads.

Top 5 pure QB's of all time
1) Marino
2) Tarkentain
3) Elway
4) Montana
5) Farve

and one day Peyton Manning will be in that list.

Marino records:

TD passes in a career 420
Most sasons leading the leagues in Attempts 5
Most Passing Attempts in a career 8,358
Most sasons leading the leagues in Completions 6
Most passes completed in a career 4,967
Most seasons leading the league in yards gained 5
Most Yards Gained in a Career 61,361
Most seasons 3,000 yards passing in a career 13
Most Yards gained in a season 5,084
Most games 400 yards or more passing in a career 13
Most games 400 yards or more passing in a season 4 & second with 3 nobody else has more than two
Most consecutive 400 yards or more passing in a game 2
Most games of 300 yards passing in a career 63
Most TD passes in a season 48 & 2nd place with 44
Most Games, Four or More Touchdown Passes, Career 21
Most Games, Four or More Touchdown Passes, in a season 6 and 2nd with 5
Most Consecutive Games, Four or More Touchdown Passes 4

That's 17 individual records which is probably also a record, if you still don't think he is #1 than you are just an idiot.

[coclarkson]

Manning will own all of those records by the time he's done. John Elway and Dan Marino had pretty much the same problems. no running back and a lack of talent around him. but Elway still got his team to 3 super bowls in the 80's while marino only got there once. Montana smoked them both.

Kite, no way Namath is in the top 5. just like Bradshaw, he's more famous for his comercials and his guarantee to win sb 3 than he is for his career as a qb. his stats are worse than Bradshaws. he was constantly injured. 27,663 passing yards, 173 td passes 220 ints and a 50.1% completion percentage. he threw more ints than tds in 11 of his 13 seasons. 50 more ints than tds, horrible.

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

ha ha ha i luv it BJ4015...finally some1 who knows there stats and wuts important about a QB....#13 all the way

[IHateHonda]

I have no doubt in my mind that marino is one of the best.. but you have fran tarkentain at number 2....The top 2 are from qbs that just didnt have wut it took to win a damn superbowl... sorry, I dont care how many records a guy holds, its all for not if theres no title with all that...

1. Montana
2. Marino
3. Elway

The rest in my opinion dont matter, theres to many to choise from of who would round out the top 5. No doubt if Marino won a title, Hed be Number 1 all time. Remember, Thats all amrino ever really did was pass, Montana and Elway had decent running games...

Maybe Bledsoe does win that title game against the rams, no way does he win another, hes putting up yards, but thats it, hes next to done with. Belichek knew this, Why do you think he kept Brady in there when Drew healed. And ultimatly picked Brady over Bledsoe...

Namath makes my all time goofyest QB list for being drunk and hitting on that reporter chick on National TV, Bradshaw makes that list to, but not the all time greatest QBs list

[BJ4015]

Manning will not pass Marino's Career numbers

most TD's in a season 33
Most yards in a season 4413
To pass Marino's yard mark he is going to have to pass for 3040 yards a season for the next twelve years( meaning he would be 40 when he retires)
To pass TD's he needs 21 for the next 12 years
To break the most 3000 yards in a season he needs to do it for 7 more years.

Remember Manning has not missed a game in his career and I highly doubt he'll make it 12 more years with out injury

As far as John Elway having no running back I do remember Mr. 2,000 yard rusher Terrel Davis was on the Broncos and in 1990 they had Bobby Humphrey who was a 1,200 yard rusher. Marino had a 1,000 yard rusher only once in his career (1996 Kareem Abdul Jabbar)

[BJ4015]

If winning a super bowl is everything than Phil Simms and Terry Bradshaw should be up there as one of the greatest. :lol: I don't think so

[coclarkson]

he'll easily break most 3000 yards in a season. he's not going to need 12 years to break the passing yards and td passes. he needs 3040 yards a season for the next 12 years. think, he throws for 3500-4000+ a year meaning he'll do it under 12 years. and he'll throw 25-30+ td passes a year. Manning never gets touched, that's why he starts every game. he's smart enough to get rid of the ball before he gets drilled. Elway went to three super bowls in 87,88,89. Bobby Humphrey was on just one of those teams. I wasnt' talking about when he won with TD. Elway went to two super bowls with no talent. Marino went to one.

[BJ4015]

Only time will tell, Marino never got sacked either but he still got hurt.

[coclarkson]

because he's a pussy

[Captain Feathersword]

Coming up on Nfl this year, Patriots 3 in 4 years.
And that is that.

[Gonjawolverine]

Tom Brady is a winner, I will admit that, but he is alot like Kurt Warner was with the fact that he has tremendous amount of talent around him.
The Patriots are the Pistons of Football, they are a T-E-A-M, ask any football fan. Last season when the Superbowl was about to be played all the media bitched about was the lack of Star Power on the Patriots and Panthers teams. The "tremendous amount of talent" around Tom Brady was non-existent. Now your little catch phrase "tremendous amount of talent" absolutely applys to the Rams, how else could a 30 year old stock boy become MVP of the leauge? There is nobody on the face of the earth who would pick Antowain Smith or Marshall Faulks cousin Kevin over the real Marshall Faulk. Who would pick Troy Brown, David Givens or Dave Patten over Issac Bruce, Tory Holt and Az Hakim? There is no compairison of the talent of the Superbowl teams of the Rams and the Patriots, just look at Superbowl XXXVI. Nobody gave New England a shot to win, everyone thought it was going to be another blowout. But that was when the Legend started.
It takes a team and I have no doubt if Bledsow never got hurt, he would have two ring right now also and Tom Brady would still be holding a clipboard.
Drew has a ring from sitting on the bench completely healthy and holding a clipboard and he had his chance to win a ring of his own, and he got delt with. He had Curtis Martin at RB and he had Terry Glenn at WR 2 Legit Pro-Bowlers at the time. But a real QB, named Brett Farve had something to say about that game.

[IHateHonda]

Marino got sack, and got hit hard. His body couldnt take all the bumps...

I never said the title was everything, all I said was He had a great career, big number but never got wut counted the most. And I know he never had great running, thats why he passed so damn much, I never said Elway had no running back either, i said him and montana had running games but they still put up huge ass numbers. We all have opinions, so its all good

[coclarkson]

well speaking of retired dolphins players, Ricky Williams decided to call it a career after just 5 seasons. This guy is a fucking head case. He pretty much screwed the dolphins by quitting right before training camp. what a moron.

http://img21.exs.cx/img21/1098/a100.jpg

[the1the0nly]

Huh? Ricky Williams retired? When?!?

[IHateHonda]

ya, hes a fuckin dumbass, i don't care wut his excuse is, thats just moronic, he cant suck it for Ill care. No class, He obviously can't handle the NFL.. Pussy :evil:

[The Young One]

one time for my fellow philly dwellers

E
A
G
L
E
S
EAGLES!!!!
all the way to the bowl

[KABOOM]

Chiefs VS. Eagles in the Superbowl, or The Vermeil Bowl?

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

fuckin ricky williams is a pussy i hate that shit he quit football to smoke weed wut a dumbass

[IHateHonda]

fuckin ricky williams is a pussy i hate that shit he quit football to smoke weed wut a dumbass

haha oo man, nice. Hes wut 27? and now retired? sweet deal that is. Just when his career was looking up, why didnt he think of this when he was in new orleans?

I guess when he said he wanted to travel the world he prolly meant he wanted to see the shit that the other countries were growing :lol:

[The Young One]

no hes just using the george kostanza method
now that you like him hes out
leaving with a bang

[Gonjawolverine]

I guess when he said he wanted to travel the world he prolly meant he wanted to see the shit that the other countries were growing :lol:
:shock: Holy shit!?! I heard this shit last night at a party, and was completley shocked. Doing this has killed the Dolphins chance of doing anything for this season and maybe the next few. I know he tested positive for a little ganja, but I really don't think that had anything to do with his retirement. Travis Minor is a nice change of pace back but he is no Ricky. Apperently Jim Brown retired at age 29, and more recently Barry quit the Lions still in his prime at 31. But 27? He was getting faster and stronger every year. Ricky was a bad mothafucker too man, that shit is a damn shame. BOOO! Ricky! BOOO!
http://img47.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Williams_Ricky_09.gif
The crazy fucker draging some Lions

[IHateHonda]

Former WWE star Brock Lesner and the Minnesota Vickings agreed to a deal today.. I m not sure wut it was but, I dunno, thats crazy if u ask me..

[Gonjawolverine]

Former WWE star Brock Lesner and the Minnesota Vickings agreed to a deal today.. I m not sure wut it was but, I dunno, thats crazy if u ask me..
That is crazy. Lesner played football in High School, but not college. I think he may have been a wrestler in college. But I don't think he is that old, what 25 or 26? All I know is that dude is a big motherfucker. The NFL is a place where he will have other big motherfuckers his size and bigger, that will fuck him up for real, not for play. But If he does good, he is giving "Rastlers" some actual credibility.

[IHateHonda]

damn .. wut is going on in the NFL... Today Tim brown was released by Oakland.

Quincy Carter was released by the Cowboys after testing positive for an illegal substance, supposenly cocaine(rumored). I remember about 7 -10 years ago when you had to be on cocaine to be on the cowboys, Micheal Irvin and a few other players were getting arrested for the drug and other things as well, now you get released for it. How times have changed...Obviously im joking. Wutever it was sucks cause hes an iddiot for doing that shit. He was in a program that tests him every so often, to get in that program, you have to have tested positive at least once before.. that idiot..

Am i hearing right? that ricky williams is eyeing the Oakland Raiders?? some one tell me this is a joke.. if not than the joke is obviously Ricky ..

[Kite2DaBoyz305]

i dont think ricky can do anything till the years in his contract are up...but if the fag wants to go to oakland and lose fuck him

[coclarkson]

HOUSTON -- In the latest catastrophe for the star-crossed Miami Dolphins, the team said late Friday night that wide receiver David Boston will miss the entire 2004 season after he suffered a knee injury earlier in the day during a practice with the Houston Texans.

[Gonjawolverine]

The Pre-season schedule started earlier this evening with the Broncos taking on the Redskins. Man, pre-season games are such a tease. The coaches play the starters for 1, maybe 2 series and put in all the guys trying out for the team. The Redskins are not going to be very good if Mark Brunell does not shake the rust faster. He is not really an upgrade from Patrick Ramsey. He is just too old. Portis had one good run but was otherwise very plain. I was impressed by Sean Taylor, that guy is the real deal. He's big, fast and a pure playmaker. That little guy from Oklahoma, Quentin Griffin was damn impressive too, he had a couple of good scampers, maybe it is the system.

[alb0ne]

I watched the Hall of Fame game as well, even though I get pissed off every year because I know they dont play the starters at all-HOWEVER! I'm agreeing with the Sean Taylor comments, he is gonna be so nasty this year, the interception that was more of a lob that resulted in a jump ball in the endzone was a gimme, but his TD interception was raw talent....

[IHateHonda]

HOUSTON -- In the latest catastrophe for the star-crossed Miami Dolphins, the team said late Friday night that wide receiver David Boston will miss the entire 2004 season after he suffered a knee injury earlier in the day during a practice with the Houston Texans.

Damn Miaimi is hurtin now. I think they are done, and the season hasn't even started yet...

I agree wit Gonja, Brunell lost some quickness and it will hurt him this year in the division while playing teams like philly twice. I don't even know why they bothered with him this year, I men Ramsey seemed to be making a name for himself, this year seemed to be the year he really breaks out. I guess any team would go for the oppertunity of adding depth to that position and possibly upgrading ( not much of one tho for WASH), Just look at NY Giants. (tho Eli has yet to play a game)
Give the ball to Ramsey, and I think the Skins make the playoffs, division seems to be in Philly's hands as of now.

[coclarkson]

Associated Press
CANTON, Ohio -- Jon Jansen leaned against his crutches in the locker room and looked ahead to surgery, months of rehab and a lost season.
The Washington Redskins' starting right tackle ruptured his left Achilles tendon in the first quarter of a 20-17 exhibition victory over Denver in the Hall of Fame game on Monday night.
Jansen, a six-year player who has never missed an NFL start, was helped off the field by trainers and teammates and sat on the bench for several minutes, his hand covering his face. He then was carted off.
The injury will sideline Jansen for the season.

that's gonna hurt the skins. he was thier best lineman. last season, the skins o line gave up 30 sacks. that number will probably go up since Jansen's gone. Brunell isn't very durable, so he'll probably get hurt sometime during the season. Ramsey needs to be more efficient. he completed just 53 percent of his passes last season. i don't see the redskins making the playoffs this year, maybe next year.

[The Young One]

i saw on pti that tim brown signed with tampa and gru-dog. in my opinion, this means bad news for tampa. griese vs. johnson for qb. give me a break. ill play qb for half the money and do a doublely better job then both of them combined. also, jevon kearse (eagles) was reported to have hurt his ankle. he broke out in a jog this morning meaning hes ok i guess, but it did offer a scare for us eagles fans.

[dingo]

haha yaaa no miami... the AFC east is droppin like flies.... miami, jets plain suck, and buffalo can be decent if there o-line gives bledsoe time and travis henry gets it rollin


also, when bledsoe was holding the clipboard in the superbowl, he wasnt able to play, but he handled the whole situation with a whole lotta c-l-a-s-s, and never gave any BS to anyone and was always positive. i still respect him.

[coclarkson]

the jets will be good this year. they wouldv'e been better last year if Pennington wasn't hurt the first half of the year. travis henry said that he wants traded if he has to share carries with McGahee.

[IHateHonda]

the jets will be good this year. they wouldv'e been better last year if Pennington wasn't hurt the first half of the year.

They will be better than most people think...

I want to see what that Vilma Character will do in new york, I enjoyed watching him in Miami with the hurricanes, I will be keeping an eye on him this season...

Buffalo just plain blows... It's all OJ's fault... ( you gotta blame it on someone, right? :P )

[The Young One]

seahawks, everyone says theyre gonna be a real superbowl contender. am i the only one not seeing this happening. since when are the seahawks good. yes i understand they have matt hassleback and two good wrs inrobinson and jackson and a good rb in alexander. they also signed former eagle(see a recurring theme with my nfl posts :?: ) booby taylor which will help them alot, but i will never believe that the seahawks will make it past the 2 round in the playoffs. i guess everyone is blowing off the rams. bulger holt bruce and faulk, not bad. too conclude, go eagles :lol:

[IHateHonda]

I bet the Rams will be a huge dissapointment this year tho..

Seahawks are a decent club. They have second round qualities, just look at last year, if it wasn't for a lame throw, they probably would have made it further, but then again, that's all it takes is one mistake..
Don't be shocked if they turn out better than last season.

Eagles still look damn good.. I hope The giants can at least beat em once this year, they usaully have decent games against them.

[war|forever]

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS DESTROYED THE EAGLES.

As if there was ANY doubt.

[coclarkson]

i don't think the rams will do anything greater than a wild card game. Isaaac Bruce and Marshall Faulk are getting old and Bulger throws to many damn pics. i think he threw 22 last year. It'll be interesting to see how many carries Stephen Jackson will get. Orland Pace is still holding out and Kyle Turley got hurt and will miss alot of the season if not all of it. they still got Torry Holt though. He's amazing to watch. Seahawks did get Talyor but they lost Shawn Springs. they picked up Grant Wistrom as well. they should win the NFC west but Philly, Green Bay, and the Vikings will beat them in the playoffs. I think the Vikings will have a huge year.

[bronco]

u all r making the broncos look like they r nothing :?
They got bailey, lynch, ellis and they also have pryce wilson etc
their defense will take them to the playoffs and they will get farther than last season
and remember Offense wins games Defense wins championships DEFENSE

[The Young One]

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS DESTROYED THE EAGLES.

As if there was ANY doubt.

you put entirely too much time into that :lol: . i was gonna say "enitely too much faith in the preseason" too, but i did some research.(for stat freaks ------>) last year the pats and the panthers went undefeated in the preseason. the year before that the bucs went 3-1 and the raiders went 2-2.

im going to do some more research as too .500 teams in the preseason do well in the superbowl but over the last two years...maybe those games do mean something

[The Young One]

u all r making the broncos look like they r nothing :?
They got bailey, lynch, ellis and they also have pryce wilson etc
their defense will take them to the playoffs and they will get farther than last season
and remember Offense wins games Defense wins championships DEFENSE

yes but when you are the indy colts with the great threesome, offense wins superbowls. i expect big things from manning harrison and james.

(most likely the dirtiest post i ever made)

[coclarkson]

I think everybody is waiting to see if the broncos can fill the shoes of Portis. They'll be better on defense with Champ and Lynch in their lineup. I don't like Jake Plummer. If the broncos don't get thier running game going and have to rely on plummer than it'll be a long year. Plus, Sharpe is gone and rod smith is getting old.

[Ryan]

AFC East
New England
Buffalo
Miami
NY Jets

AFC North
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Pitt
Cleveland

AFC South
Indy
Tennessee
Houston
Jacksonville

AFC West
Denver
Kansas City
Oakland
San Diego

NFC East
Philly
Washington
Dallas
NY Giants

NFC North
Green Bay
Minnesota
Chicago
Detroit

NFC South
Carolina
Tampa Bay
Atlanta
New Orleans

NFC West
Seattle
St. Louis
San Francisco
Arizona

Super Bowl
Indy and Philly
Indy wins it.

I would give record predictions, but the numbers won't add up correctly if I don't think about it for a couple hours, because the NFL plays 512 regular season games, and if you give teams too many wins you'll have too many games played. like the first post had 550 games total or something, so the numbers won't be right. which is also why prediction magazines rarely give record predictions.

[IHateHonda]

I would give record predictions, but the numbers won't add up correctly if I don't think about it for a couple hours, because the NFL plays 512 regular season games, and if you give teams too many wins you'll have too many games played. like the first post had 550 games total or something, so the numbers won't be right. which is also why prediction magazines rarely give record predictions.

wow, you got new your jets in last in the east, denver in first in the afc west, tenn in second ( well that division sux so probably right id say third ) and carolina on top of tampa.. damn some bold predictions ryan!

The records predictions, now wouldnt it be the same if each teams record equaled 16 games? I mean I understand that you cant make each team 16-0, but wouldnt that just come out to 512 all around anyways? I mean I get wut your saying with that, like if you have too many teams with a lot of wins vs little teams with many loses.. or is that what you were trying to say to begin with? example 16 teams with a 13-3 record and 16 teams with an 8-8 record( if you get what Im saying haha ) Wow I think I just confused myself.. Ok what im trying to say is that if as long as each teams individual record = 16, than the total games will = 512, but you cant have too many with a high winning record if it doesnt even out some how with teams with losing records, because then you would have say ex. New england beats kansas city the only time playing them but when your predictions play out technically kansas city would have had to beat new england as well to have that record be true, then it snowballs from there... If anyone understands what I mean

[CBELL]

u all r making the broncos look like they r nothing :?
They got bailey, lynch, ellis and they also have pryce wilson etc
their defense will take them to the playoffs and they will get farther than last season
and remember Offense wins games Defense wins championships DEFENSE

yes but when you are the indy colts with the great threesome, offense wins superbowls. i expect big things from manning harrison and james.

(most likely the dirtiest post i ever made)

And look how many Super Bowls their great offense has netted them.0

The Pats are going to be a tough read this year. Their line play is going to be sucky in the first half of games and awesome in the second half. They have so much depth on the defensive line that they can just keep subbing in fresh guys without any drop in skill level. On offense their advantage is the play of Brady and that they now have a very good runner. Brady can bait teams into rushing a lot and just firing the ball away before they get there which drains the defensive teams stamina and determination. Then when they are tired of just not being fast enough to get Brady the Pats can punish them with Dillon who wil run around and over them. The one weakness tonight for the Pats was their O-line showed a little bit of weakness however the Eagles have one of the best defensive fronts in football and the Pats were missing two starters. Also the only time there was a lot of trouble was when Davey was in and the backups on the New England line where on while the starters for the eagles were still playing. The Eagles starters played 4 series while the Patriots starters only played 2.

yeah if people think the Pats secondary is not going to cream guys all year long just ask the Eagles. Add another heavy hitter to the Patriots defensive backfield in the form of rookie Guss Scott. He leveled two guys and I mean leveled them. Then Eugene Wilson added another couple of huge knockout hits which became his trademark towards the end of last year. then when you add in rodney Harrison those are some bad ass safeties New England has.

[Ryan]

wow, you got new your jets in last in the east, denver in first in the afc west, tenn in second ( well that division sux so probably right id say third ) and carolina on top of tampa.. damn some bold predictions ryan!
the jets don't have anything that impresses me on their team. and even though miami is so screwed up right now, they'll pull something out. and denver is a running back factory. before portis they had mike anderson run for 1500 yards. people forget that he's still back there. and don't doubt quentin griffin. tennessee got rid of eddie george and jevon kearse and will be riding steve mcnair all season. steve mcnair has enough heart to get them second place and maybe a wild card, but he doesn't have enough for first. and i don't really see the texans or jags doing very well. the texans MIGHT get a .500 record. and the jags... well, no comment. carolina is coming off a great year (they didn't lose to the patriots, they lost to a kicker). there isn't really any reason to suggest that they can't get first in their division. i'm a tampa native and follow the bucs close, and i don't see a good year for them.

[CBELL]

carolina is coming off a great year (they didn't lose to the patriots, they lost to a kicker). there isn't really any reason to suggest that they can't get first in their division

Well you could start with their offensive line. Gone are Jeno James, Todd Steussie, Kevin Donnaley, and Adam Meadows. Their offensive line is going to be very shaky. Unlike the Patriots who proved in the playoffs that they didn't need Damien Woody top succeed(their only big subtraction from their offensive line) the Panther srequired all of their guys to play at a high level. also they absolutely suck at WR and if either of their top receivers goes down bye bye passing game. Also their defensive backfield got absolutely shredded by Brady in the Super Bowl and they lost Deon Grant to free agency. There is also the point that Delhomme could be a one hit wonder. I am not saying he is but you can't count on him playing at the same level he displayed last year. Also do realize that coaches have had the whole offseason to study tape on him and with the huge downgrade on the offensive line he will be having to deal with more pressure. And i don't care who you are when a QB faces a lot of pressure good things don't happen. And with no passing game comes more attention to the running game and with a worse offensive line the RBs will have to struggle for yards more often.

I am not saying there is another team in the NFC South that can beat them but I am saying that chances of seeing the PAnthers in the Super Bowl again are slim to none.

[IHateHonda]

Here's an article on Brock Lesnar's First Nfl Game...

"Brock Lesnar's Vikings debut came on a kickoff with 8:45 left in the first half. In a surprise move, the former WWE and Gophers NCAA heavyweight champion lined up to the left of kicker Aaron Elling and ran straight downfield and hit the blocking wedge. He didn't break it up, but he helped stop Arizona at the Cardinals' 28.

With 6:26 left in the game, Lesnar made his debut at defensive tackle. The Cardinals drove down the field against Lesnar and the rest of the third team. But the Cardinals were penalized in the red zone for holding Lesnar. Lesnar made a tackle on the next play and the Arizona drive stalled two plays later with a missed field goal attempt.

"This is all I can ask for, to get a little experience," Lesnar said. "I've been in the league what? Two weeks. I'm just fortunate to have gotten in the game tonight." "

He did decent for his first outing. Let's see if he can keep it up

[coclarkson]

i heard on some sports radio show that he'll make the practice squad and then be sent to NFL Europe to get more experience. practice squad players make $72,000 a year, which is a HUGE paycut from the WWE

[Captain Feathersword]

PATRIOTS repeat.

[athong]

Patriots vs. Seahawks Superbowl

Most Improved Team: Detroit Lions

[dingo]

patriots dynasty

[war|forever]

Captain, athong, and dingo know the score fellas. NEP4EVA fuckers. :lol:

[THEDJ]

Da' Bears are going to suprise a lot of you this year. The West Coast is going to make David terrell a Star.


In the end though no one beats the Paitriots (I HATE THEM)

[thewonderdog]

It does appear Lesnar is destined for the practice squad. He received his rookie initiation yesterday when the Vikings broke training camp. It took the majority of the team to chase him down and tape his legs together. From what I hear it was rather humorous to see him running away from the other linemen. Tice likes his attitude and work ethic, but he just lacks the experience.

[HandsomeDan]

Even though there's no hope for them this year (despite Lovie Smith replacing Botox Jauron) They still reign for those stuck in the 80's (pat's fans beware)

http://www.websurfnicaragua.com/music/shuffle/shuffle.ram

(hope this isn't a repost)

[IHateHonda]

anyone see Terrell Owens 81 yard catch on the Eagles first play of the first quarter against the ravens tonight?? DAMN. Donovan Threw for 154 yards in that quarter alone

[KABOOM]

I am still saying the CHIEFS will go to the Suoerbowl and win. I know all of you are saying "yeah right, with that defense" Yes with this defense. Every analyst I have heard that has talked about the Chiefs has said that it is much improved. Remember, Gunther Cunnigham's defense in the 90's was tops in the league.

I will say that the AFC Championship will be CLOSE between the Patriots and the Chiefs. I predict 23-20, with Adam Vinateri missing a field goal. Yeah you heard me. I have said my piece, now go ahead and bitch about it.

[coclarkson]

Buckhalter better not have another torn acl :twisted: i got that fucker on my fantasy team.

the chiefs will win the division no doubt but the super bowl? the super bowl? gunther might be back but he isn't bringing neil smith, james hasty, and derrick thomas with him. they have the same defensive players as last season and a new defensive scheme won't help things at all. they'll win 10-12 games because of a horrible division, but they won't come close to the super bowl.

[war|forever]

I am still saying the CHIEFS will go to the Suoerbowl and win.

Hey Kaboom, you accidentally spelled Patriots: C-H-I-E-F-S... but other than that, right on! :lol:

[Captain Feathersword]

I see Philly getting to Bowl way before the chiefs do. Chiefs D hasen't gotten better. If you have seen those pre season (1st half) games u know what I'm talking about. And if Philly does ever make it past the NFC Championship they'll hit this huge wall named the New England Patriots. 1 Player/Weapon (T.O.) Doesen't make a difference. That GM should have made better moves.

[KABOOM]

I knew you all would bring up the preseason game. First off, the Giants did not dcore when our starters were in. Second, when Eli Manning came in, our backups were already in. He is a starting quaterback, and will start this year, maybe not at the beginning, but by the end of the season. So to say the Defense hasn't improved when looking at stats from Eli Manning, who faced the backups, then yeah, it hasn't improved. But our starters held them to 0, people, 0.

[Saint]

HOLY S*** THE BEARS JUST TRADED BOOKER?!?!

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2682788

PROS: better pass rush


CONS: lack of a number one reciever
should of given them a-train instead

[Ivan the Terrible]

I think some people have trouble separating their feelings as a fan and the reality of the quality of their football team. I live near Pittsburgh, am a die-hard Steelers fan, but I can agree with most of the predictions that I see here -- maybe, MAYBE 6-10... yeah, they drafted a QB in the 1st round and he has played good in the preseason, but... I can accept the Steelers will be mediocre/less than that again this year. They essentially upgraded at RB w/ Duce Staley, but just lost another O-lineman for the year. Defense is shaky...

Now those who think Denver and Miami (see above... in the earlier posts...) are going anywhere this year are crazy! They might make 6-10 too...

As for the pretenders, er, contenders...?!?!?, well, I see either Philly or GB in the NFC and the Pats/Colts in the AFC... KC has gotten another year older and, although they have Priest, they are going to need some divine intervention to do anything in the Playoffs. Philly and NE in the big game?? Not really going out on a limb though... How about Seahawks/Panthers???

Raiders = Old
Ravens = D, yes; O, no (It will interesting to see what happens if Jamal Lewis gets thrown in the clink and Kordell Stewart (LOL) has to take over... What about the jinx with Ray Lewis on cover of Madden???
Seahawks = just unlucky... (maybe this year since I have Alexander carried over from my fantasy team money league last year...)

[KABOOM]

Do you all believe NOW? Chiefs Chiefs Chiefs

[Stingray]

Chiefs indeed.

Well...for this saturday's game anyhow. I'm hoping they put a beating on Cleveland, just so I don't have to listen to the local media talk about Hillbilly Garcia like he's the fuckin' 2nd coming....he could be the love child of Namath & Dan Marino (and looks like it), for all I care....with the Browns' line, he's gonna get almost as many good passes in as I can from my recliner.

[The Young One]

Hugh Douglas cut today by jacksonville. And in a semi-related story, Philadelphia Eagles sign former Eagle Hugh Douglas. hop on the eagles banwagon now while its fairly empty

[DoobieKeebler]

I don't care about their win/loss record, all I care about is.....

http://img51.exs.cx/img51/8338/49ers_cams106.jpg


#85 Brandon Lloyd


GO 49ERS and BRANDON LLOYD!

[blu350z]

Brandon Lloyd?

Does anyone think that Ken Dorsey will even play this year? He was good @ Miami w/ Clinton Portis, Andre Johnson, Kellen Winslow, Jeremey Shockey, & Sean Taylor, but the 49ers aren't the Canes.

[coclarkson]

it's scary to think that Brandon LLoyd will be the go to guy for the niners but he showed some promise last year making some unbelievable catches. He was a stud at Illinois but i'm more interested to watch rookie Raushaun Woods. I just hope he doesn't become another 1st round bust ala JJ Stokes. Dorsey has a good chance at playing, Rattay is coming off a major groin injury and i'm not sure he's 100% just yet. Niner coaches have said that Dorsey was impressive in camp. Kevan Barlow is the one to watch. He's a strong runner and should gain around 1300 yards. I'm hoping Julian Peterson re-signs with them. he's the best outside backer in the game.

ESPN ranked the top 10 NFL players of all-time, check it out
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview04/news/story?id=1868175

[DoobieKeebler]

Dorsey is good, but who I REALLY like is Cody Pickett. He was a steal(as I feel Dorsey was, too) in the 7th round.

It's a shame Raushaun Woods has been injured. He needed some preseason games under his belt to be as ready as possible for the season.

Oh, and JP signed a 1 year deal cause we wouldn't accept his agent's rediculous asking price (Great player or not, he's NOT getting Peyton Manning money).

[coclarkson]

Uh Oh. ever hear of the Sports Illustrated cover jinx?

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/2871/a.jpg

[KABOOM]

Oh Shit. The Chiefs are mentioned. Damn SI they are going to mess it up again. Damn It :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil:

[coclarkson]

Oh Shit. The Chiefs are mentioned. Damn SI they are going to mess it up again. Damn It :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil:

i remember last season, the chiefs were on the cover right before they lost their first game to the bengals...

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/9444/a3.jpg

[KABOOM]

THAT COVER SHOULD ROT IN HELLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :x :x :x :x :x :x :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[tanqueray]

SI is almost as bad as the madden curse. what happened to vick last year after he was on the cover? missed almost all season...i dont remember who were on previous covers but i do remember sportscenter did a big story on it, the madden curse dates back to the original madden back in the 90's

[The Young One]

i semi-remember the story. it was eddie george 01 culpepper 02 faulk 03 vick 04 ray lewis 05. before that i believe it was madden himself on the cover.

[tanqueray]

yeah.... ur right


so watch ray lewis this year, madden never fails

[blu350z]

ray lewis wont be affected by the madden jinx cuz hes Ray Lewis. unless he gets accused of rape or selling crack or sumtin.

[MasterCool]

First, curses are not real 8) but lets pretend they are.

The Madden curse is not what I would call curse. 2 of the players who have been on the cover have been injured, the two others (George, Culpepper) just had bad seasons.

[funkcisco]

Anyone interested in Fantasy Football?

I have a league going to draft on Sunday night.

[Cobra]

I'd play but all filled up.

Please let this thread go to another page cuz I'm tired of seeing chiefs at the top of the page.

Go Broncos

[IHateHonda]

Some pretty big Cuts in the NFL including Packers QB Tim Couch, San DIego's WR Kevin Dyson, Dolphins WR Antonio Freeman, Eagles RB Dorsey Levens, and Patriots CB Terrell Buckely

Doug Flutie miraculously survied cut day in San Diego

Any one else see Deion Sanders getting interviewed By Micheal Irvin on Espn? Hes already back in character, talking bout his high stepping and pulling his hand behind his head, both of which he said he might not be able to get all the way up or back as far as he used to...As much as I used to love his flash and play when he was with Atlanta or San Fran, I kind of want to see him get burned just to shut him up now. He seems to just be coming back for the money and fame rather than to play

Here's week 1 shceduale:
Thurs, Sep 9th
Indianapolis at New England, 9:00 pm
Sunday, Sep. 12
Arizona at St. Louis, 1:00 pm Baltimore at Cleveland, 1:00 pm
Cincinnati at N.Y. Jets, 1:00 pm Detroit at Chicago, 1:00 pm
Jacksonville at Buffalo, 1:00 pm Oakland at Pittsburgh, 1:00 pm
San Diego at Houston, 1:00 pm Seattle at New Orleans, 1:00 pm
Tampa Bay at Washington, 1:00 pm Tennessee at Miami, 1:00 pm
Atlanta at San Francisco, 4:15 pm Dallas at Minnesota, 4:15 pm
N.Y. Giants at Philadelphia, 4:15 pm Kansas City at Denver, 8:30 pm
Monday, Sep. 13
Green Bay at Carolina, 9:00 pm

[coclarkson]

colts v patriots...what a way to kick off the season. can't wait. i also want to watch the ravens v browns game to see if neon deon can back up his shit talking. I hope Winslow runs that fucker over. It's pretty pathetic that tim couch got cut. just think, the browns couldv'e drafted either McNabb or Cullpepper. DOH!

[Gonjawolverine]

Please let this thread go to another page cuz I'm tired of seeing chiefs at the top of the page.

Go Broncos
Indeed, the Chiefs are pretty terrilble, all that great offense and absolultly no D.

I hope to see Detroit get there first road victory in 3 years on sunday against another whack-ass NFC North team, Da Bears. The Media has always said that once Joey Harrington got some weapons on offense, he would be a good NFL QB, well he has the weapons in Rogers, Williams, Jones, Streets, and Hakim. Can he produce? That is the big question.

Colts vs. Pats, that is going to be a showdown. When New England whoops that ass again, I wonder if Peyton is going to blame it on his recievers being held? The Kick-off game is going to be great.

Lots of Stoylines this NFL season, here are a couple of questions that will be answered throughout the season.
Can the Pats cement their dynasty by winning it all again? When is T.O. going to blow up? How long before Eli is starting? Does Deion still have a little "Prime Time" in him? Was "The Great One" Kellen Winslow II, worth all that cash? I could go on and on, but you get my point. NFL Football is back, and that just good shit.

[KABOOM]

We will see about the CHIEFS Defense. But, I will say this about the Broncos: no Portis+no Anderson=No running game for the Broncos.


GO CHIEFS

[Pepsi]

I see its easy for you guys to look past the COLTS with their high powered offence, but their going to the superbowl. No one will stop them, not the chiefs, the ravens, the broncos, the titans, hell even the patriots. The colts defence has upgraded and Edgerrin...Edgerrin James is got whip thoses defences into shape cause everyone seems to have forgotten about him since his knee injury. Lets just hope he doesn't bolt to Miami when his contract is over at the end of the season. And how the fuck can the colts now be interested in Tim Couch...COMMON

PS - Who's comming out of the AFC EAST - NOBODY....sure the patriots might make the playoffs, but still they aint going to the superbowl

AND FOR EVERYONES PLEASURE...CHEERLEADERS IN THE RAIN (top is san diego - bottom is miami)
http://img38.exs.cx/img38/1563/chr1.jpghttp://img26.exs.cx/img26/8103/rain.jpg

[Gonjawolverine]

No one will stop them, not the chiefs, the ravens, the broncos, the titans, hell even the patriots.
PS - Who's comming out of the AFC EAST - NOBODY sure the patriots might make the playoffs, but still they aint going to the superbowl

You can't be serious. You just can't. The Patriots are the defending Champs and The Class of the NFL. When was the last time the Colts won the Superbowl? 1971? Peyton finally had a breakthrough and won a playoff game for the first time in 8 years, and now the Colts are going to the Superbowl? I would give the nod to the Titans before the Colts. Simply because the Titans play Defense. Indy has no chance of stopping Tom Brady & Company from marching up and down the field. I overlook the Colts because it's like they are not even there. Sure, they have a great offense. But look were it's got them. NOWHERE.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Brady11.jpg
2-Time Superbowl MVP Tom Brady says "Come and get it Peyton."

[Cobra]

LOL too funny. You can say that to the Chiefs to. When is the last time they won a playoff game? 1992. (93 playoffs)

An Ominous Chief Note

Posted by Victor to: Football
07:39 PM Jan 6 | Comments (1) | TrackBack (0)

Few will note nor remember that Maz is doubtful for the Chief's playoff game this week. Maz doesn't have great speed, but he plays sound defense and can tackle. This would be as opposed to his talented but inexperienced backup, Kawika Mitchell. IMO, it is no coincidence that the KC run defense has fallen apart over the past 6 games while Maz has been out. Much will be made of Peyton, Priest, Green and the other big name stars. But the Chief's defense is thin and the worst thing that could happen to the Chiefs would be for Peyton to dissect their defense early and then for James to run over them late. Here's hoping that Warfield (CB, out with back problems in week 17) will be healthy enough to take on Harrison.

Just a Chief's fan getting worried. Memories of 1996 are too vivid still. ;)

haha I remember '96 well :lol:

Bronco's got D :twisted:

[KABOOM]

But they have no O. What good is a great defense (which will be greatly hurt with the rule changes, i.e. Bailey) if you have no offense to score with?
I will admit that the CHIEFS D is not that great, but it is an improvement on last year. With Cunningham's system, it will be better. I'll throw this fact out there too, in every Preseason game when all the starters were out for both teams, we had the lead in every game.

But we will find out Sunday Cobra.

[bacardi]

But they have no O. What good is a great defense (which will be greatly hurt with the rule changes, i.e. Bailey) if you have no offense to score with? ...


well, i think the RAVENS won a superbowl with great defense and no offense. yall can sleep on them if yall want but with an improved special teams and offense, you cant just dismiss them. they play the chiefs, colts, & the pats this year so well see what theyre all about then.

As for deion, i think hes gonna play in the nickel defense. he should be able to cover the slot long enough for line to their job.

The whole madden thing, dont hold your breath. Ray has played hurt before and played better than most LB's when their healthy. And i cant see him having a bad season. i mean he's a linebacker unless he miss alot of tackles (just not gonna happen) i dont see how this could happen

[Pepsi]

I gotta say its gonna be tough for defences this year with the new rules for man-2-man coverage the NFL made to create more offence. I mean the DB's can jam receivers the first 5 yards but any contact after is a penalty. I saw a few preseason games where the DB's just put the hands on the receivers shoulders and not create any seperation and still get called for a penalty. I mean the ravens and broncos and patriots may be able to compensate, but it'll be a test. It'll be easier for young defences because they can be taught, but older guys rely on instincts and that will hurt them in the penalties.

http://img37.exs.cx/img37/506/bengals_pbs103.jpg


PREDICTION FOR THURDAYS GAME - COLTS 27 - PATRIOTS 17

Just to make it more the thread more lively...if anyone lives in Ontario or where ever and you ***ahem*** bet on games for the point spread or over/under POST YOUR PICKS.

TEN(V) -4.5 VS. MIA(H) - take titans
NJ(V) VS. PHI(H) -9.5 - take eagles
BAL(V) -3.5 VS. CLE(H) - take ravens
DAL(V) VS. MIN(H) -4.5 - take vikings

[coclarkson]

thursdays game: Colts 23 Patriots 16...alot of field goals

TEN(V) -4.5 VS. MIA(H) -i'll take MIA
NJ(V) VS. PHI(H) -9.5 - NO, 9.5? tha's alot of points!
BAL(V) -3.5 VS. CLE(H) - Balt
DAL(V) VS. MIN(H) -4.5 Dallas

with the new no contact after five yards rule, Randy Moss will be going deep at least 4-5 times a game. he will break the record for most recieving yards in a season

[Supafly]

with the new no contact after five yards rule, Randy Moss will be going deep at least 4-5 times a game. he will break the record for most recieving yards in a season

And you still take Dalllas? Co you disappoint me my friend. :cry: 8)

[IHateHonda]

with the new no contact after five yards rule, Randy Moss will be going deep at least 4-5 times a game. he will break the record for most recieving yards in a season

great point... The refs are really gunna start calling this often, look for the deep ball being thrown more this season, COuld be very exciting to watch.

I agree with thursday tho i think New england can pull it off, in a close one, imma say a field goal decides it. But, im sure the colts are extra hungry this year, they will be the team to beat.

[KABOOM]

But they have no O. What good is a great defense (which will be greatly hurt with the rule changes, i.e. Bailey) if you have no offense to score with? ...


well, i think the RAVENS won a superbowl with great defense and no offense. yall can sleep on them if yall want but with an improved special teams and offense, you cant just dismiss them. they play the chiefs, colts, & the pats this year so well see what theyre all about then.

As for deion, i think hes gonna play in the nickel defense. he should be able to cover the slot long enough for line to their job.

The whole madden thing, dont hold your breath. Ray has played hurt before and played better than most LB's when their healthy. And i cant see him having a bad season. i mean he's a linebacker unless he miss alot of tackles (just not gonna happen) i dont see how this could happen

True, True, but it will be harder NOW than it was then because of the new rules. If you have no offense now, you will not go far.

[Cobra]

I think there is too much being made of this 5 yard rule. The recv'r is still going to have to outplay the defense. Besides now defenses are gonna be wanting to get to the QB faster which always causes big plays.

[Gonjawolverine]

I think there is too much being made of this 5 yard rule. The recv'r is still going to have to outplay the defense. Besides now defenses are gonna be wanting to get to the QB faster which always causes big plays.
I agree, The "New 5 Yard Rule" isn't even new. It's been on the books for years, but because of the whining and crying of the Colts and the Eagles about the rough and physical play of the Panthers and Patroits DBs, the refs will be looking to enforce it more. I really don't think it will have a huge impact on the game, those recievers are still going to get mauled at the line of scrimmage. For a team like the Colts which heavily rely upon timing routes, that will ruin their day quickly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/VS.gif
Tonites game will end Colts-17 Patroits-29, and Peyton Manning 0-7 in Foxborough.

[coclarkson]

who runs for more yardage: Corey Dillon or Edgerrin James?

I'll go with James. Patriots lost BIG Ted Washington so he won't be blocking the running lanes. James will get 80-90 yards. Dillon will get around 60-70 yards.

[IHateHonda]

Yes, I am ready for some football :!:

I am really excited for this season, more so than I have been about any other in the past. Myabe its because last playoffs where great and Im just going off of that...

[Gonjawolverine]

who runs for more yardage: Corey Dillon or Edgerrin James?
It is true BIG Ted Washington was a major runstopper last season and will be missed. But he was replaced by another huge fat-ass in Keith Traylor, so I don't see too much of a drop-off in Run D production. Indy is not known for their run stopping power or their defense in general, So I will take Dillon 134 to 78. But look for Edge to get some recieving yards on some HB screens.

[IHateHonda]

Fairly game goin so far. Tom Brady's 288 consecutive home game passing streak without an interception was just ended in the fourth quarter with about 7 minutes left. SO far the score is New England 27 Indy 24

OO man what a great ending to that game. Vanderjacht Misses a 48 yard field goal in the final seconds of the game that would have tied it. Willie McGinnest's sack on Peyton Was HUGE. Awesome game, great start to this season

[Captain Feathersword]

OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BBBBBBBBBAAAAABBBBBBYYYY!!!!
Patriots 1-0. It's early but f that.
Manning Can't win in New England. Reapeat here we come.

[war|forever]

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS DEFEAT THE COLTS.

As if there was any doubt.

[Gonjawolverine]

Indy put up a good fight. That was one hell of an opener, it came down to a missed field goal by one of the most accurate kickers in all of football, what a great game. I was very impressed with the way Edge was running. He was making some good cuts and showed that he still has a lot of speed. It's too bad he can't hold on to the rock though. Peyton did ok, his numbers were good but not Manning good. Manning has never won in Foxborough and more than likely never will. Tom did pretty well, he was throwing bullets, bombs and everything in between to get the job done. It's too bad New England was so thin at RB or we could have gotten a better look at Corey Dillon who was averaging 5.5 YPC, a whole YPC more than Edge. John Madden cracks me up, him ranting on about how cool Tom Brady is and saying that repeatedly, fucking hilarious. Tom threw for almost 80 more yards and a touchdown more than the league Co-MVP Manning and got the most important stat of all, the W.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/brady-manning.jpg
2-time Superbowl MVP Tom Brady says "Who's my Little Bitch?"

[coclarkson]

fucking james lost the game for them. fumbleing twice, including one inside the 5. the colts should've won fairly easily but two turnovers inside the 5 isn't gonna get er done. edge looked good and it's nice to see the other colt wr's stepping up and making plays. i don't think the colts will lose to the pats in the next game, if there is one.

[Gonjawolverine]

i don't think the colts will lose to the pats in the next game, if there is one.
This was the best shot the Colts will ever get. They were ahead, they could have had an easy victory, but Coach Bilichick is in Peyton's head. So Peyton starts to make bad decisions, and Edge suddenly turns to Tiki Barber. The Pat's offense may have been at mid-season form but the defense looked very rusty. When or if they meet again this year, The Pats O will be in better form with Troy Brown back in the line-up. The defense will have gotten the assingments down better and be much improved over this last showing. No matter how much better the colts get on O, it won't matter. That Defense is going to have to stop Tom from freely cherry picking what recievers he wants to throw it too. That is not happening.

[bronco]

Couple reasons they lost was cuz peyton practically threw the ball to brucshi and that made peyton's confidence drop like a 50 ton anvil from top of a building, and edge went oops i dropped the ball!

[RighteousFunkBoogie]

i think the eagles look like the team to beat this year mcnabb and T.O. were on fire but we gotta see when they play the better teams.... KC lost to denver and the vikings looked pretty good too beating dallas

[Gonjawolverine]

Blue skys and Dark clouds all at the same time for the Detroit Lions. The Lions finally snapped their 3 year, 24 game road losing streak, but lost Charles Rogers for the season and Dre Bly for 2-4 weeks. The Lions offense looked pretty offensive for pretty much the entire game, until they put together a late scoring drive that sealed the game for them. Surprisingly enough the defense looked pretty good, with 2 picks and 2 forced fumbles. Thank god for Jason Hanson and the special teams play of Bracy Walker and Shaun Rogers. Kevin Jones was not very productive but it's his first start so you can't blame him. Roy Williams had a few flashes or brilliance, and with Charles done for the year he will have to pick up the slack. They have the Texans next week, a winnable game and in week 3, the Philadelphia Eagles are going to bring the pain to Ford Field.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/JoeyHarrington.jpg
I enjoyed that Sunday Night Broncos vs Chiefs Match-up, Quentin Griffin is really something special. Man that guy has got some Barry-like moves, and he fast as hell. What everyone says about the Broncos is you can plug anyone into their system and have a 1000 yard back, but this guy is the real deal. They will not be missing Portis for long at all.

[coclarkson]

where's Kaboom? wonder what he thinks about the chiefs game :lol: :lol: vikings, packers, and eagles looked good in the nfc. in the afc, patriots, broncos, and titans impressed.don't sing the praises of quentin griffin just yet, he went against the sorry d of the chiefs. the biggest surprise was the browns beating the ravens. i think they might win that division. they play the cowboys this sunday which will be another test.

[KABOOM]

where's Kaboom? wonder what he thinks about the chiefs game :lol: :lol: vikings, packers, and eagles looked good in the nfc. in the afc, patriots, broncos, and titans impressed.don't sing the praises of quentin griffin just yet, he went against the sorry d of the chiefs. the biggest surprise was the browns beating the ravens. i think they might win that division. they play the cowboys this sunday which will be another test.

Yes, Yes they lost. But this is only the first game and our defense did get tired out there. It doesn't help when Plummer rolls out almost every play and the plays he doesn't roll out on Griffin runs. I never said they would be the best. I said they would be improved. They were improved. They were pressuring Plummer for most fo the first half. The second half they started rolling out. I think it will look better the next few games.
The Broncos D wasn't that good either. They were pretty good, don't get me wrong, but they still allowed 164 rush yards and a reciever to have 100 yards.

[Supafly]

vikings looked good in the nfc.

Yeah, Vikings Motha Fuckers! ok I'm done

[The Young One]

vikings looked good in the nfc.

Yeah, Vikings Motha Fuckers! ok I'm done

sorry to say that come monday night those cheers wont be happening

E
A
G
L
E
S
EAGLES!!!

[Supafly]

Ya know I haven't got to see a Vikings game on monday night in years. And when it happens we get the fucking Eagels. Bullshit. Where's the Bengals when ya need them.

[The Young One]

Ya know I haven't got to see a Vikings game on monday night in years. And when it happens we get the fucking Eagels. Bullshit. Where's the Bengals when ya need them.

it shames me to say it but culpeppers 5 tds beat mcnabbs 4 tds :oops: :lol: :lol:

[coclarkson]

http://img40.exs.cx/img40/1845/a185.jpg

Monday-Night Madden: Ealges-Vikings

Who'll win the Eagles-Vikings game on Monday night? In a video-game rehearsal, Eagles defensive end Jerome McDougle battled Vikings tackle Bryant McKinnie in EA Sports Madden 2005 on Xbox Live

When the former University of Miami teammates squared off on the Internet, the gamesmanship began early with McDougle's insisting on a change from cold, wet conditions to a more balmy setting. "He knows D-linemen don't get off well in the rain," said McKinnie. With the sun shining on the screen, it was McKinnie who stumbled early, committing two turnovers and looking bewildered on defense as Donovan McNabb threw two TDs for a 14-0 Eagles halftime lead. "We're going to work on our tackling next week," McKinnie muttered. The Eagles' offense stayed hot in the second half, going up 28-0, and McDougle reveled. At one point he dared McKinnie to "put that rassler in there," referring to WWE star Brock Lesnar, who was cut by Minnesota but is on the game as a defensive tackle. McKinnie refused, but a little Lesnar might have livened things up: A lone TD was all the Vikings could muster. Later McKinnie, who'd played from a Minneapolis hotel, glumly munched a plate of room-service fries. "I tell you one thing," he said, "this will not reflect what happens Monday night." EAGLES 28, VIKINGS 7

[Gonjawolverine]

don't sing the praises of quentin griffin just yet, he went against the sorry d of the chiefs.
That is very true, The chiefs D is pretty bad. I was just so impressed with his moves and his speed. I have not seen those Barry-like moves since Michael Vick. We will see how he holds up against a legit top 10 run defense in the Jacksonville Jaguars next week.
vikings looked good in the nfc.

Yeah, Vikings Motha Fuckers! ok I'm done

sorry to say that come monday night those cheers wont be happening

E
A
G
L
E
S
EAGLES!!!
Eagles vs Vikings is going to be a heavyweight bout on Monday Night. I am looking forward to that one.

[BigE]

Broncos won easy and they did not play that well. If it wasn't for Plummers two interceptions and Griffens fumble on the one that stopped another TD they would have totally rolled the Chiefs. The pick ups they made in the off season (Champ and Lynch) looked real good. Yeah it was a great Sunday; Broncs won and the Raiders and Cowboys lost. Fucking perfect.

[Pepsi]

Week 2 Picks (Got this from TSN website, what the hell they were free, and Schultz knows his football, played in the NFL and in the CFL with the Toronto Argonauts.)

1:00 p.m. Sunday, September 19th

St. Louis Rams @ Atlanta Falcons -2

When you think about it, Michael Vick is a very inexperienced quarterback. After missing so much time last year, last week’s game at San Francisco was like starting a career all over again. Vick will be better at home this week. Having said that, the Rams have beaten Atlanta in the last seven games by an average of 37 to 12. I also like the way Stephen Jackson can take the load off Marshall Faulk. Coach Mike Martz is anticipating a decline in Faulk just due to age – nothing else. Jackson fits that role very well. The only way to match Vick step-for-step is speed on defence. The Rams, even without Lovie Smith, still have team speed.

Schultz Picks: St. Louis Rams

Cleveland Browns @ Dallas Cowboys -4

Under Bill Parcells, the Dallas Cowboys do not lose two games in a row. Yes, the 35 points and five touchdowns by Culpepper last week is a concern; however, I just can’t see a loss two weeks in a row. Overlooked in the Minnesota loss was Vinny Testeverde’s efficiency with everybody. Keyshawn Johnson, Antonio Bryant and Terry Glenn all had good games and Cleveland’s secondary is susceptible to big plays. Also, what crushed Dallas last week was a 22-play (that’s right, 22-plays) drive that resulted in no points. That was the turning point of the game and I don’t think it will happen again. Jeff Garcia is a solid, positive influence on other players and Butch Davis has a better team, but Parcells’ pressure points hit players hard after a loss.

Schultz Picks: Dallas Cowboys

Chicago Bears @ Green Bay Packers -9

Green Bay all the way. This Packer team may have the best offensive line in football. I know I said that about Kansas City, but the Chiefs miss John Tait. Ahman Green has such a crystal-clear understanding about blocking patterns and the available moment they allow. Now Green Bay this week will be stronger with Mike McKenzie back, but weaker without Grady Jackson at DT if he’s unavailable. But even if Chicago scores early, you can’t show me a better fourth quarter quarterback than Brett Favre. Also, Green Bay’s dominance of Chicago is remarkable. The Packers have covered eight of nine games and this one is the home opener. Enough said.

Schultz Picks: Green Bay Packers

Carolina Panthers @ Kansas City Chiefs -6

This is a very interesting game because both teams are coming off significant losses. Carolina looked very average on defence vs. Green Bay, which was very surprising considering the talent that is still present. Now they face a Kansas City team that did have offensive success with Priest Holmes and the offensive line working together. You can’t under value the broken leg of Carolina’s top receiver, Steve Smith. He was the No. 1 playmaker and, due to his absence, defences can concentrate on Stephen Davis and DeShaun Foster all the more. This will be a back to the basics game for Carolina. When things get tough, John Fox expects his team to get together. Both teams need a bounce-back game. Kansas City will use that Green Bay film to win and cover.

Schultz Picks: Kansas City Chiefs

Washington Redskins -3 @ NY Giants

The Redskins didn’t just beat Tampa Bay last week 16-10, they dominated the Bucs. Tampa Bay had only ten first downs last week, and only 30 rushing yards. Also, everyone knows Joe Gibbs will protect his quarterback. Priority No. 1 for Washington is no sacks allowed, which is a drastic change from the Spurrier years. Defensively for Washington, they will be after Kurt Warner, who is a similar pocket quarterback to Brad Johnson. Watch out, New York Giants, because this is a much better Redskins’ team coming to the Meadowlands. A key to their improvement is defensive co-ordinator Gregg Williams. He developed a top defence in Tennessee, did it again in Buffalo and now seems to have the Redskins on the right track.

Schultz Picks: Washington Redskins

Pittsburgh Steelers @ Baltimore Ravens -3.5

I was surprised that Baltimore lost to Cleveland last week 20-3. For Pittsburgh this would be an excellent opportunity to put Baltimore two games behind them in the race to win the AFC North. The quarterbacks in this one could make the difference. Kyle Boller is still trying to live up to expectations and Tommy Maddox is just trying to keep Ben Roethlisberger on the bench. I love that urgency factor with Maddox. The Steelers will also be able to evaluate the run defence film from the Cleveland game. Historically, Pittsburgh plays excellent run defence for a 3-4 team and, as always, the challenge will be to shut down Jamal Lewis and get Boller into as many third and long situations as possible. There are a lot of good receivers in this game for Pittsburgh with Plaxico Burress, Hines Ward and Antwaan Randle El. The Ravens will try to contain them with Deion Sanders, Chris McAlister and Gary Baxter (if healthy). It feels like a field-goal game to me.

Schultz Picks: Pittsburgh Steelers

Houston Texans @ Detroit Lions -3

Two things stand out about the Houston loss to San Diego last week. Domanick Davis fumbled twice and the Texans allowed San Diego to convert too many third and long situations. This will be an interesting game because Dre Bly may not play and Charles Rogers is out with a broken collarbone. Also, Detroit managed only 77 yards on 30 carries on the ground vs. Chicago. If Chicago can shut down Detroit on the ground, so can Houston. I just like this Texas team. Dom Capers is an above average head coach and the team is young and ambitious. I know Detroit plays much better at home, but did you also know that Detroit has not had a 100-yard receiver in the last 17 games?

Schultz Picks: Houston Texans

Denver Broncos -3 @ Jacksonville Jaguars

I have to be honest here – of all the teams of Week 1, Denver may have been the most impressive. The 156 yards by Quentin Griffin were well earned and the depth at receiver gives Denver consistent big-play possibilities. When they play Jacksonville they will be playing one of the NFL’s better defensive football teams. The front seven of Jacksonville is as good as any, so I anticipate less than another 156 yards for Griffin. But the real key to Bronco success is bootlegging after having success on the run. It buys Jake Plummer so much extra time and gives the receivers double-move opportunity. After Week 1, Jacksonville is ranked 29th on offence. Byron Leftwich looked uncomfortable under the centre. Maybe some shotgun would loosen him up.

Schultz Picks: Denver Broncos

San Francisco 49ers @ New Orleans Saints -7.5

This is a difficult game to assess because of the impending hurricane in the New Orleans area. Still, I think San Francisco can keep it close. In the second half last week, the 49ers held Michael Vick and Atlanta to 39 yards in the last seven possessions. Maybe Atlanta is not that good, or maybe San Francisco is better than originally thought – it’s too early to tell. When you look at talent on offence vs. talent of offence, New Orleans should win easy. Aaron Brooks, Joe Horn, Donte Stallworth vs. Ken Dorsey, Brandon Lloyd, Cedrick Wilson and Kevan Barlow. Only Barlow is a proven player for San Francisco. This is one of those games where the ½ point over the seven is too tempting not to use to an advantage. If it was six or less, I’d take New Orleans to win. But everything is so close in the NFL and Dorsey has played in high-level pressure games. New Orleans wins, but San Francisco keeps it close.

Schultz Picks: San Francisco 49ers

4:05 p.m. Sunday, September 19th

Seattle Seahawks -3 @ Tampa Bay Buccaneers

The big question in this game will be the physical health of running back Shaun Alexander. If he plays and is not too physically limited, then Seattle could win by a touchdown. This is the second long-distance road trip in as many weeks for Seattle. Last week they were in Louisiana and this week they are in Florida. If the Seahawks can produce a win on Sunday, their next two games are in the NFC West (San Francisco and St. Louis) with a bye week in between. Seattle has good corners, an underrated offensive line and an aggressive quarterback in Matt Hasselbeck. When they look at the Redskins-Bucs film from last week, they will see ball control to the max, but Seattle is more of a big play team. It is Tampa Bay that must adjust. Tampa Bay has lost four of five vs. Seattle and the Seahawks have never lost in Raymond James Stadium. The Bucs will be hungry, but Seattle has too much perimeter talent.

Schultz Picks: Seattle Seahawks

New England Patriots -8 @ Arizona Cardinals

The Cardinals did play the Rams tough last week in St. Louis, but over their history, St. Louis and Arizona have played each other consistently. That familiarity and a couple of Rams turnovers kept the game close. This game could be close when you consider that nine of New England’s last 14 wins have been by less than seven points. But this is the first time quarterback Josh McCown has seen this New England defence. If he stays interception-free, I will be surprised. This is a dangerous game for the Patriots because Arizona is a tough team to get up for, especially in the heat. But Bill Bellichick has had ten days to get ready. A shutout is a possibility.

Schultz Picks: New England Patriots

NY Jets -3 @ San Diego Chargers

There are two great running backs in this game - Curtis Martin for the Jets and LaDainian Tomlinson for the Chargers – which kind of evens things out. As for the quarterback match-up between New York’s Chad Pennington and San Diego’s Drew Brees, I’ll take Pennington. Last week Pennington picked apart the Bengals’ secondary and had a couple of key dropped footballs. I think he can do it again against the Chargers’ secondary. Also, sometimes running backs have big days against teams that run 3-4 defences – not so much on the outside but at the interior point of attack. San Diego is a better team: Antonio Gates at tight end, Lorenzo Neal at full back and the two cornerbacks, Quentin Jammer and Sammy Davis. That said, I just like the ball control of Pennington.

Schultz Picks: NY Jets

Buffalo Bills @ Oakland Raiders -3.5

A lot depends on how Buffalo responds from the last play in the Jacksonville loss. If they look at it as a building block there is no problem. However, if team doubt creeps in then that is another state of mind. Every season has one or two games that dictate the season. Buffalo doesn’t want last week to be the one. The Bills should be able to make Oakland one-dimensional on offence. The Raiders are still an unknown football team - older in some places, young in others. Buffalo does create good balance on offence, but on defence they should keep it close.

Schultz Picks: Buffalo Bills

Indianapolis Colts @ Tennessee Titans -1

I remember last year’s Tennessee/Indianapolis game in Tennessee where the Colts were pretty much turnover free. The Titans were the opposite. Both teams will have plenty of preparation time. For the Colts, ten days in between games, while the Titans got an extra day due to Hurricane Ivan. The key in this game will be the effectiveness of Edgerrin James. In the two games last year James totaled 217 yards. Not bad, considering the Titans had only 146. But as painful as it is to admit, Chris Brown is a better running back than Eddie George. Now McNair only completed nine passes last week for 73 yards, but all Miami has is that defensive football team. All the pressure is on them and I bet you they will respond all season long. I know Jeff Fisher will communicate the urgency of this game. The Titans still have to play in Indianapolis on December 5th. At the end of the season, as early as it is, this game will go a long way to the AFC South winner.

Schultz Picks: Tennessee Titans

8:30 p.m. Sunday, September 19th

Miami Dolphins @ Cincinnati Bengals -5

When was the last time the Bengals were favoured on a national telecast on a Sunday night? The success of Miami quarterback Jay Fiedler depends on a good running back. Without Ricky Williams, the Dolphins have to find one. New running back Lamar Gordon has a great opportunity to establish himself as a top back, because he will probably be The Guy in Miami for the rest of the season. Also, he plays a Bengal team that gave up 218 total rushing yards against the Jets. If Miami is to win this one, it will be on defence, and as an organization everyone knows it. Miami is very simple – especially compared to New England - but they react well, run well and stay disciplined. I expect the Dolphins defence to show up and play exceptionally well.

Schultz Picks: Miami Dolphins

9:00 p.m. Monday, September 20th

Minnesota Vikings @ Philadelphia Eagles -3.5

The Eagles may be three-time NFC title-game losers, but they are again Super Bowl contenders. Two questions about the Eagles’ offence were answered against the Giants: 1. Could Terrell Owens be a part of a system of ball distribution – a McNabb strength – or would he overshadow everyone else and change the system? Well, Freddie Mitchell, L.J. Smith and Chad Lewis all had significant contributions catching against the Giants. Owens will fit in just fine. 2. Could Mighty Mite Brian Westbrook be the feature back? Well, all 5-foot-8 and 200 pounds ran like 6-foot-2 and 230 pounds in Game one. The Eagles have a balance of run-pass effectiveness. Minnesota is a better team already this year. A higher level of confidence was obvious in the way they attacked the Dallas receivers, but Dallas had 27 first downs and 352 passing yards. You can ball control against the Vikings’ defence.

Schultz Picks: Philadelphia Eagles

[war|forever]

Anybody else have this NFL Network on demand shit? It compacts an entire game down into 15 minutes without missing any of the big plays or scoring drives... I can handle like 5 minutes of it before my brain goes into sensory overload. That's just not how I'm used to watching football :shock: :shock:

Yet, it's awesome.

[RighteousFunkBoogie]

did anyone see the game yesterday eagles won makin it look easy...im not an eagles fan but i wanna see them go all the way cuz i like mcnabb and i kno my dolphins aint gonna do shit this year...mcnabb MVP

[Pepsi]

The Dolphin - Bengal drove me nuts. I needed the dolphins to cover 5 points and fuckin AJ Feely kept throwing like french girl. He 'tried' throwing down the middle and kept hitting the bengal linebackers. I use the word tried very loosely, AJ didn't try one depp pass all game. Their running is the shits. I know now to never expect Miami to cover cause they can't the spread as loing as Feely is QB. ANd the Eagles - Vikings didn't crack up as I was all meant to be. All week it was who gets more TD's, Owens or Moss, when it was pretty much a game controlled by defence. Culpepper was so fuckin scared of the blitzs that he didn't try one deep pass to Moss. And that TD by Owens was garbage. It wasn't even a TD.

But who is complaning...my picks fell threw and I won $200 on a $10 bet.
I know its small change, but hey its still $200

[coclarkson]

Week 2 Picks (Got this from TSN website, what the hell they were free, and Schultz knows his football, played in the NFL and in the CFL with the Toronto Argonauts.)

uhh, that guy sucks!! he only got 5 out of 11 right. the vikings played well, they moved the ball efficiently. if Culpepper doesn't fumble on the goal line and they get 1 td instead of a FG then they win. i don't know how you can say they played bad when they got into the red zone on nearly every drive. Dolphins just plain suck. i heard that Fiedler may start from here on out. the only way they have a chance at winning is to throw the ball 50 times 'cause they aint got a running game.

[Pepsi]

The funny thing was that lottery (Pro Line Point Spread) company in Ontario went down will some technical problems so nobody cound bet on football. I swear all my picks for the 1 o'clock games would have lost. Its only because I played the afternoon and Sunday night game that I won.

Bout the TSN guy, he makes his picks very early in the week (tuesday/wednesday) so he figure in injuries during practices and game time decisions. Don't worry I won't post his picks anymore. If you still want his picks thought they are at tsn.ca

[RyanA]

did anyone see the game yesterday eagles won makin it look easy...im not an eagles fan but i wanna see them go all the way cuz i like mcnabb and i kno my dolphins aint gonna do shit this year...mcnabb MVP

They did not win making it look easy...they Vikings had an almost 2-1 advantage in Time of Possession and the Eagles only had 313 yards. Culpepper blew it basically, hesitating in the first half and getting stopped at the one forcing them to kick a field goal, and then fumbling at the goalline. There's 10 more points. The holding call on Birk was BS when Culpepper ran in for a TD which pushed the Vikes back for another field goal, although there may have been holding on the RT on Kearse, so that could be considered a wash. And finally, if the Vikings assistant coaches didnt have their heads up their asses, they woulda saw Owens bobble before the PAT. I thought it was a very competitive game that lacked the offense everyone expected and exp0sed the vikings biggest weakness, which I believe to be confidence, they played scared and played not to lose instead of trying to win. Eagles fans should be excited becuase they beat a very good football team, but I would be worried how much their defense had to be on the field. If they play again and Minnesota has the ball that long (especially without a running game!) the game wont be close. Bold Prediction: Vikings and Iggles will play again in the NFC Championship game...

[coclarkson]

the vikings would smoke any team in the metrodome. I think Seattle will get home field advantage throughout the playoffs due to their weak schedule and the fact that they play in the worst division in the NFL. Terrell Owens needs to shut the fuck up. he was saying if he had Culpepper or McNabb early in his career that his numbers would dwarf Moss's. That's bullshit. Owens played with a little known QB named Steve Young in his first two seasons and Jeff Garcia was a two or three time Pro Bowler. Owens will never be as good or better than Moss, and that kills him so he has to make up excuses. He's a crybaby, punk ass biatch. Shut the Fuck Up T.O. :wink:

[KABOOM]

Well, it looks like theCHIEFSare done. D sucks, Offense has done little. Now we lose Priest for at least one game, probably more, with an ankle sprain, our only good recieving WR has a pulled hamstring, and one of our CB was arrested for DUI for the third time in three years. So go ahead and start your trash talking. I deserve it. Well, there is always next year

[The Young One]

the vikings would smoke any team in the metrodome. I think Seattle will get home field advantage throughout the playoffs due to their weak schedule and the fact that they play in the worst division in the NFL. Terrell Owens needs to shut the fuck up. he was saying if he had Culpepper or McNabb early in his career that his numbers would dwarf Moss's. That's bullshit. Owens played with a little known QB named Steve Young in his first two seasons and Jeff Garcia was a two or three time Pro Bowler. Owens will never be as good or better than Moss, and that kills him so he has to make up excuses. He's a crybaby, punk ass biatch. Shut the Fuck Up T.O. :wink:

well what a coinicendence. you mentioned steve young, however you failed to mention the living legend Jerry Rice. i dont think both rice and owens can have spectacular seasons. and dont give me that rice was on the way out bullshit because rice will always be a great wr. if owens had mcnabb or culpepper there is no doubt that that team would have won the superbowl, just no question. moss however has had culpepper for a long while, and they still remain a team of the "should-be's" when moss is raping women or throwing them down the steps he is a decent wr, but he just hasnt done anything to make a huge entity of his name. owens, while causing problems, actually wantss to be here. unlike san fran with garcia, he likes mcnabb and enjoys playing for us(philadelphia) and that will motivate a player even more. dont you dare rip my team coclarkson :wink: :lol: :lol:

[Supafly]

Owens V.S. Moss 98-04

Owens: Total Yrds=7262 FD=348 TD=73

Moss: Total Yrds=8471 FD=373 TD=80

And lets not forget about Chris Carter I seem to remember him and moss both having good years.

And Culpepper's only been playing for 4 years.

And when you say "should-Be's" Is that Like "The Eagels should have won the NFC the last 3 years but didn't"

Moss was lighting motha fuckers up when Frerotte was the QB so that argument really doesn't hold much weight.

T.O. is a hell of a receiver but he's no Randy Moss.

[Gonjawolverine]

For the first time since The year 2000, the Detroit Lions are 2-0 and are leading the NFC North Division. I know it's early in the season, I know they only played Da Bears and a crappy Texans team. But damn, it's the Lions, they have had 5 wins over 2 years. So I am enjoying it and any fan of Detroit is loving it. It's unbelivable but, the Lions have cracked the SI Power Rankings Top 10 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/dr_z/09/22/drz.rankings/index.html). But unfortunatly, on Sunday a nice little team from Philadelphia called the Eagles makes there way to Ford Field to snuff out our little win streak.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/RoyWilliams1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Harrington_Jones.jpg
Owens will never be as good or better than Moss, and that kills him so he has to make up excuses
In the whole T.O. vs Moss fiasco, While T.O. is a crazy basterd and Randy Moss loves to run over cops. If you are choosing a player based on pure talent, you would have to take Moss. Even if you are an Eagles fan, who would you rather have honestly? Randy Moss is the gold standard for wide-outs not Owens. Randy is bigger and faster thant T.O. While Terrell may be stronger more physical reciever, Moss is just the total package. I am not hating on the Eagles either. I have been an Eagles fan for years, everytme I play against someone new in Madden, the Eagles are my team. And I fucking hate the Vikings, they are a Black and Blue division rival, and they just plain suck. But Moss is the best, and T.O. is #4 on my list.

[war|forever]

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS DEFEAT ARIZONA.

As if there was any doubt. :lol: :lol:

[The Young One]

Owens will never be as good or better than Moss, and that kills him so he has to make up excusesIn the whole T.O. vs Moss fiasco, While T.O. is a crazy basterd and Randy Moss loves to run over cops. If you are choosing a player based on pure talent, you would have to take Moss. Even if you are an Eagles fan, who would you rather have honestly? Randy Moss is the gold standard for wide-outs not Owens. Randy is bigger and faster thant T.O. While Terrell may be stronger more physical reciever, Moss is just the total package. I am not hating on the Eagles either. I have been an Eagles fan for years, everytme I play against someone new in Madden, the Eagles are my team. And I fucking hate the Vikings, they are a Black and Blue division rival, and they just plain suck. But Moss is the best, and T.O. is #4 on my list.

well first off who is you 2 & 3. i can think of one logical one, marvin harrison, but who are they and what order, gonja. i think you could make a case that skill wise moss is better, but no one has added heart into the equation. moss just seems like he is generally unhappy. t.o. seems to love philly, donavan, andy reid, the media, he seems to feel at home. i think heart strongly plays a factor.

based on pure talent:
1. Randy Moss
2. T.O.
3.Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt

based on current situation:
1. T.O
2. Marvin Harrison
3. Randy Moss
4. Koren Robinson

just my opions though

[coclarkson]

T.O. has heart? just wait a few weeks when he starts bitching about not getting enough catches or td's. T.O. is selfish, and only cares about himself. Look at all of the episodes he had with the niners. yes he is talented, but he doesn't have the athleticism of Moss. T.O also drops alot of passes. Moss makes catches no one else IN HISTORY could make. I'm almost tempted to say that he is the greatest of all time.

top 5 WR's period:

1. Randy Moss
2. Marvin Harrison
3. Torry Holt
4. Terrell Owens
5. Chad Johnson

honorable mention: Hines Ward, Joe Horn, Eric Moulds, Laveranues Coles

[The Young One]

T.O. has heart? just wait a few weeks when he starts bitching about not getting enough catches or td's. T.O. is selfish, and only cares about himself. Look at all of the episodes he had with the niners. yes he is talented, but he doesn't have the athleticism of Moss. T.O also drops alot of passes. Moss makes catches no one else IN HISTORY could make. I'm almost tempted to say that he is the greatest of all time.

top 5 WR's period:

1. Randy Moss
2. Marvin Harrison
3. Torry Holt
4. Terrell Owens
5. Chad Johnson

honorable mention: Hines Ward, Joe Horn, Eric Moulds, Laveranues Coles

im tempted to rip your honorable mentions but ill pass. you can make that case with the niners, but again he disliked every niners player. of course he bitched and had no chemistry. HE WANTED TO GET TRADED. and whens the last time youve seen moss lay himself out for a catch. hes good but not anything near the greatest of all time. "the greatest of all time" is always someone retired. they have to retire inorder for you to say that. when michael jordan was playing people werent saying he was the greatest of all time, that was reserved for dr. j and wilt the stilt. no one relizes how good someone is until they retire(some specially cases i.e. rice, farve) and how can you say he is anywhere near the best ever when he has never one a superbowl?

[coclarkson]

all you have to do is look at stats. nobody has put up the numbers that moss has through his first 5-6 years. just because you've never won a super bowl doesn't mean shit. alot of people think Marino is the greatest ever, he never won a title. nor did Barry Sanders and people refer to him as the greatest ever. and you have to be retired? barry bonds isn't retired. Shaq isn't retired. why did T.O want to get traded? because he bitched and had no chemistry. why? because he disliked every niners player. why? because he wasnt' getting enough balls thrown his way. it's only a matter of time before T.O. becomes unhappy. and what's wrong with my honorable mentions? can you come up with a better list?

[The Young One]

all you have to do is look at stats. nobody has put up the numbers that moss has through his first 5-6 years. just because you've never won a super bowl doesn't mean shit. alot of people think Marino is the greatest ever, he never won a title. nor did Barry Sanders and people refer to him as the greatest ever. and you have to be retired? barry bonds isn't retired. Shaq isn't retired. why did T.O want to get traded? because he bitched and had no chemistry. why? because he disliked every niners player. why? because he wasnt' getting enough balls thrown his way. it's only a matter of time before T.O. becomes unhappy. and what's wrong with my honorable mentions? can you come up with a better list?

yeah and moss is such a cheery guy. is it impossible to believe that peoples number will go down as they get older. some people catch more touchdowns the more expiernce they get, all im trying to say is what moss did in the past 5-6 seasons doesnt mean that hell be anything near good next season. he hasnt prvoen himself and hes not a likable person. id pick to over moss both personality-wize and talent-wize. it looks like this will never be solved, clarkson, im willing to call it quits, dont want this to be another USA Political Opions type thread.

The honorable mentions have down absolutly nothing. Coles!?! Ward!?! one year wonders. id take steve smith over anyone of your "honorable mentions" koren robinson wasnt on there. what about isaac bruce?

[DBfan187]

top 5 WR's period:

1. Randy Moss
2. Marvin Harrison
3. Torry Holt
4. Terrell Owens
5. Chad Johnson

honorable mention: Hines Ward, Joe Horn, Eric Moulds, Laveranues Coles

WHAT'S THIS? No Rod Smith?

[Stingray]

Just jumping in to laugh about the bucs shalacking last night....and when the fuck did Kerry Collins get some talent??

[BigE]

Yeah DB fan. Rod is the ultimate pro and he is putting up some nice numbers this year. They need to have Ashley Lelai keep producing. I'm very worried about our running game though. Quinten Griffens three fumbles in three games is not a good sign. The Broncos 2 wins have come against teams with a combined 1 - 5 records. They looked terrible against the Jaguars and I know the Jags are 3 -0 but I think the COlts will shred them up this weekend. We'll see...

[DBfan187]

Yeah DB fan. Rod is the ultimate pro and he is putting up some nice numbers this year. They need to have Ashley Lelai keep producing. I'm very worried about our running game though. Quinten Griffens three fumbles in three games is not a good sign. The Broncos 2 wins have come against teams with a combined 1 - 5 records. They looked terrible against the Jaguars and I know the Jags are 3 -0 but I think the COlts will shred them up this weekend. We'll see...

Yup, Broncos>rest of NFL!

Rod is the man!
QG is good.
Tatum Bell is the future though;) - he was drafted for a reason, he's also faster than Portis.
Denver will win lot this year.
Defense is the shit!

[Gonjawolverine]

Well another week is in the books and the undefeated Detroit Lions have fallen back to earth in a 30-13 beatdown by the Eagles. Yeah, nobody saw that coming, right? A couple highlights for the Lions. They just played the class of the NFC, and actually competed for a while. Roy Williams showed everyone why he is a front-runner for Rookie of the Year. Detroit's secondary is completly trashed, that's why they gave up those long bombs to T.O. The Detroit run defense was pretty impressive, Brian Westbrook only had 44 yards on 13 attempts. Donovan got popped good by Big Daddy, and fumbled the ball, the first Eagle turnover of the season. So a lot of good things came out of this game, one not being a loss. One week you are playing McNabb and the Eagles, and the very next game you get Michael Vick and the Falcons, who is making this schedule?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/RoyWilliams2.jpg
THE GREAT ONE
The top reciever debate is still raging on huh? Well I would like to throw my 2 cents worth in as well.
My top 5 WR's:

1. Randy Moss
2. Marvin Harrison
3. Torry Holt
4. Terrell Owens
5. Roy Williams (This guy is Amazing)
coclarkson you were almost right on.
Moss makes catches no one else IN HISTORY could make. I'm almost tempted to say that he is the greatest of all time.

In football, as in most sports, it is hard to call someone an All-Time Great. While Randy my be pretty damn good, he is nowhere near the Greatness that is Jerry Rice. Jerry's 201 touchdowns is double Randys, his 1521 catches and 22,488 yards is almost three times that of Randy's as well. While you may be tempted coclarkson, I hope you see that Randy has a long road ahead of him if he wishes to be the G.O.A.T.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Rice2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Gonjawolverine/Rice3.jpg
-------------------------------->Greatest Of All-Time<------------------------------

[ktj4l]

Fuck receivers. The defense wins the game. Receiver is the asshole job. You're a skinny, tall motherfucker running out there, catching a ball prior to getting completely dominated by someone. I've preferred other positions when playing football. Running back, middle linebacker, strong safety, defensive tackle... those are fun positions. My favorite would have to be strong safety. There's nothing more satisfying than leveling a quarterback so badly that he has to be carted off the field because he can't make it on his own two feet. That's what football is about... not being a faggot-ass receiver.

If you insist on talking about receivers though. Randy Moss is a badassed asshole who will catch anything you throw at the fucker. Jerry Rice was too nice to be considered the GREATEST.

[Stingray]

I gotta throw Heinz Ward on the "best recievers" list. When he's outta Pittsburgh, that team's gonna go even further down the tubes.