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2008 US Presidential Campaign

mindido

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Well, it seems about time to get some discussion going here about the 2008 Presidential election. Personally, I believe that this one is possibly the most important election we've had in my lifetime and I hope that everyone here will take this one very seriously. The next President is going to have to try and clean up some really serious problems created by the current administration. And this won't be easy. I hope that everyone, this time, will use their grey matter and not believe the rhetoric created by the candidates and the corporate media. We can't afford to lose anymore standing in the world and need to get our economic matters in order. If we don't we could be looking at some very serious consequences. Remember 1929?

Anyway, as an independent, I'm currently undecided. But my favorite on the Dem. side would have to be Dennis Kucinich. He won't get elected but he's the only one on that side that is telling the truth about where we are and what we need to do.

There is virtually no chance that I'd vote for a Republican this year as I think they've totally screwed things up and most of their candidates believe that is just fine. The only one that even deserves consideration (in my opinion) is Ron Paul. He probably has no chance of being nominated but I like a lot of what he says and seems to have a real grip on reality (the others seem to think foreign adventurism is just peachy).

For those with an interest, I saw Ron Paul on Bill Moyer's show on PBS last night and found it really interesting. See if you can find it in your area as its well worth the view.

Thats my two cents at the moment.
 

mindido

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Duke,

Thanks for the info, I may watch the interview again as I thought it was really interesting. Most all of the right portrays Moyers as some type of devil but he's one of my favorite journalists. I was somewhat expecting fireworks but Moyers and Paul seemed to get along just fine.

I think people still want an end to the war but economics are fast becoming more important. $3+ per gallon for gasoline has a lot of people really worried as so much of their income is now going to support the oil industry. Inflation seems to really be starting to take off. Unless something changes very quickly (and I believe its already too late) we will be revisiting 1929 again very soon.

My guess is that unless the Republicans can figure out another way to steal this election, they don't have a chance this year. I think people have finally figured out the extent of the deceit going on and the Dem's will probably win by a landslide. Virtually everyone I know (even the Republicans) is really pissed off and wants major changes.

I don't think the Dem's will be much better, but they can't do a whole lot worse.
 

Dragulf

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I predict the smallest voter turnout in decades. Harping about the presidential election for two years makes most people bored. Thanks for letting us know for the last 7+ years ya hate the President named G W Bush, almighty news corporations. *rolls eyes*

Politicians are all liars anyway.
 

mindido

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I predict the smallest voter turnout in decades. Harping about the presidential election for two years makes most people bored.

If the result of the Iowa caucuses is to be believed, I think you're partially correct. Every Republican I know is really demoralized about whats happened over the last seven years. They've been lied to and betrayed and they know it. I think the turnout on that side will be pretty light.

The independents (who are always the key since we switch sides) are mad as hell and unlikely to vote for any of the Republican candidates (except Paul). So more than likely, the Dems will win this year by quite a margin.

Thanks for letting us know for the last 7+ years ya hate the President named G W Bush, almighty news corporations. *rolls eyes*

Well, Faux Noise still loves him. But you have to admit, GW brought this on himself. He's turned the Middle East into a tinderbox just on the verge of erupting and has gone after our civil liberties. He deserves the hate he's receiving.

Politicians are all liars anyway.

I think your 99% correct. I really like one of our senators (Russ Feingold) and one of our Congresswomen (Tammy Baldwin). The rest are average at best.
 

mindido

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Well, there is no chance that I would vote for McCain now. And I almost voted for him in 2000. McCain believes that it would be just fine for us to be in Iraq for the next 100 years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUE-QmH-n4Q&NR=1

Lets see, we already have bases in Kuwait, Turkey and a few other places in the near vicinity. We need another one or two or twenty in Iraq? How fiscally responsible is that?
 

maddgreek

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i think im voting green for first time in my life

idc for any of the nominees this time around
 

phynix

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Going by what happened last night with Obama getting such a strong lead from Washinton and Maryland I think he is a clear choice. I'm from the UK and I'm following this run very closly because well lets be honest who ever comed into power for the US its gonna mean things no matter where you live..and we'll you guys really can't do any worse than last time (Sorry Texan!).
 

Duke E. Pyle

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Well, there is no chance that I would vote for McCain now. And I almost voted for him in 2000. McCain believes that it would be just fine for us to be in Iraq for the next 100 years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUE-QmH-n4Q&NR=1

Lets see, we already have bases in Kuwait, Turkey and a few other places in the near vicinity. We need another one or two or twenty in Iraq? How fiscally responsible is that?

It gets worse, have you seen this shit? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg
 

mindido

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Greek,

i think im voting green for first time in my life

I think I've voted green at least once (Nader?) and maybe twice. But I won't this year. I'm of the belief that the US is at a true crossroads where, if we don't get real smart, real fast, we could well be in for some very significant problems. My thoughts are that we (the US) are much like ancient Rome on steroids.

I just heard something interesting the other day (probably on one of the news networks) which suggested the US now has well over 200 military bases around the world. And, if I remember correctly, these are all outside of the US. Why?

Greek, since your Greek, you should know a little about what eventually happened to ancient Rome. They were pretty much constantly at war and eventually drained all of their wealth. Seems to me we are doing the same thing today.

idc for any of the nominees this time around

idc???

Phynix,

Going by what happened last night with Obama getting such a strong lead from Washinton and Maryland I think he is a clear choice. I'm from the UK and I'm following this run very closly because well lets be honest who ever comed into power for the US its gonna mean things no matter where you live..and we'll you guys really can't do any worse than last time (Sorry Texan!).

I agree with you totally. It appears that Obama will probably get the Democratic nomination, thus the Presidency (I think the Republicans have just about no chance [legally] of winning this year). And heres why. My dad is a staunch Republican and voted for GW twice (grrrr). I overheard him talking with a friend a little while ago saying that he would probably cross over and vote for Obama. My jaw dropped and I practically passed out. We've had so many arguments over the last few years but about a year or two ago he just fell silent. He won't talk about it. So to hear that he may vote for Obama...... Wow, what a change. I still can't really believe it.

Since your across the pond, I'd be interested to know what people over there are thinking. I think it would be good for people in the US to hear what others around the world are saying.

And what the heck did happen to Tex? Haven't heard anything from him in quite a while. Come on back big guy!

Duke,

It gets worse, have you seen this shit? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

Yeah, I've seen it. Just what we need, another war. More money going out the door when diplomacy (which GW certainly knows nothing about) could probably take care of that problem.
 

phynix

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ok well obviously I can't speak for everyone but I'll certainly give you my POV of the whole situation. You see were all a little embarrased by how much of a pussy our for prime minister - Tony Blair - was when be and GW got together and all these great ideas they had has done nothing but get great military personnel killed in two separate invasions of two contries that were doing a lot better before we moved in than they are now!
Of course now we have a new pm Gordon brown and no one like jim when he was in charge of taxes and we hate him now as pm!
a new president will be a breath of fresh air for the US. GW has embarrased himself and his country again and again and I'm not surprised to hear about people changing sides. Obama is an inteligent man who has already done great things and now he could make world history by being the first black president. 2008 could be the year that the world finds change!
 

wolfcat95

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Personally, I believe that this one is possibly the most important election we've had in my lifetime and I hope that everyone here will take this one very seriously.

I hate to sound like a smart ass, but the above statement is incredibly ignorant. The last two elections were far more important and the American people failed... TWICE!!!

Apparently Mindido recognizes this as his very next sentence implies:
The next President is going to have to try and clean up some really serious problems created by the current administration.

Any of the three remaining possibilities will be a vast improvement over what, not just the USA, but the whole world has suffered through for the last 7 years. Unfortunately, GWB has done so much damage to our Constitution I don't expect the mess to be cleaned up in my lifetime.

Don't misunderstand though... the fault does not lie only with GWB! The Congress, on both sides of the aisle, is complicit in all aspects of the damage done. The Republicans are only interested in following their leader and the Democrats are such weenies that they are afraid if they don't succumb they will look like weenies... I've got news for the Dems. They ARE weenies!
 

mindido

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phynix,

ok well obviously I can't speak for everyone but I'll certainly give you my POV of the whole situation. You see were all a little embarrased by how much of a pussy our for prime minister - Tony Blair - was when be and GW got together and all these great ideas they had has done nothing but get great military personnel killed in two separate invasions of two contries that were doing a lot better before we moved in than they are now!

Yeah, I was a bit surprised by Blair also. I initially liked him but when he started cooperating, to the point he did, with GW about Iraq, I lost my respect for him. He should have stood up to Bush and had him keep his eye on the real enemy, Al Queda.

I somewhat disagree with you in that I think we had to go into Afghanistan. My problem is that we've now bungled that operation and could, eventually, wind up just like the Soviets. Running out of there with our tail between our legs. As I've said before here somewhere, imagine if we had just concentrated on Afghanistan and never gone into Iraq. Lets say we used a quarter, or an eighth of the money we've spent on Iraq and used it to rebuild Afghanistan. Instead of basically forgetting it and now allowing Al Queda and the Taliban to regroup, grow and become a constant thorn in our side. If it had been done correctly, we'd probably be about ready to pull out by now. Instead, theres no end in sight.


a new president will be a breath of fresh air for the US. GW has embarrased himself and his country again and again and I'm not surprised to hear about people changing sides. Obama is an inteligent man who has already done great things and now he could make world history by being the first black president. 2008 could be the year that the world finds change!

I've heard that from others around the world. And I think I have to agree. Obama wasn't my first choice, but I'll have no problem voting for him. He's said that he'll talk to our "enemies" which I think is good and wise. Much better than the current administration's childish approach.

wolfcat,

I hate to sound like a smart ass, but the above statement is incredibly ignorant. The last two elections were far more important and the American people failed... TWICE!!!

Actually, I'm not sure the American people failed so much as both elections were probably stolen. There is some pretty good evidence for that. And I'll always remember the look on GW's face in 2004 after voting. He was clearly worried.

But those elections are history. The reason I feel this election is so important is because there are some very serious problems about to confront us. And if we don't get this right there could be some very serious consequences. For example, the economy. It appears to me that we are very close to another 1929 crash. All the indicators are there. Credit stretched to the max. Foreclosures rising at an alarming rate. Workers with few, if any, options. Banks doing some very questionable practices. I could go on.

In 2000, the economy was in pretty good shape and we were not at war (remember that gasoline cost about $1.25 per gallon and milk was about the same price). In 2004 we were now involved in two wars and the economy was still OK, but there were clouds on the horizon. Today, we are in a recession. Gasoline is generally > $3.00 per gallon, milk is almost $4.00 per gallon and have you been to a grocery store lately? My guess is that most groceries are up at least 40% to 50% just in the last couple of years.

In 2000, the US standing around the world was generally pretty good. Now (as noted briefly above), even our closest friends (Canada, Australia, Japan and the Europeans) are wondering what the heck is wrong with us and trying to keep the US at arms length.

So I think there are major reasons for believing this election is extremely important. In the past, as an independent, I've thrown my vote away many times basically as a protest. More than likely, I won't do that this year. And I hope that others will not do it either.

I don't like either party particularly. Once the vote is over, the politicians basically are ruled by special interests so they forget about us until the next election.

Any of the three remaining possibilities will be a vast improvement over what, not just the USA, but the whole world has suffered through for the last 7 years. Unfortunately, GWB has done so much damage to our Constitution I don't expect the mess to be cleaned up in my lifetime.

Of the three remaining candidates here are my present thoughts. As noted above, I could not now vote for McCain (and I used to like him). For some reason that I don't yet understand, he's sidled up to GW and will not deviate our path enough. He'd be better than Bush but I don't think he'll make the changes that need to be made if we're going to avoid some of the traps I foresee in our path.

Hillary? Well, she's a very smart woman and would probably do some good things. I like her ideas on health care especially. But I also think she's probably too indebted to special interests.

Obama? I guess the main thing I like about him is that I think he could do very well in diplomacy. We need to get our friends back in our corner and I think he could do that. The economy? I'm not sure but he couldn't do any worse than whats happening now. I don't know if he can clean up these messes in our lifetime but he can probably do it sooner than anyone else.

Screwing with the Constitution? Thats a tough one. Of the three, I think Obama "might" be the only one that would roll back some of the things Bush has done. But I wouldn't count on it. Of all the terrible things Bush has done, his obvious disdain for the Constitution is possibly the worst. And since the Democrats have seen how useful that power is, I doubt they'll give it up either. Which is why, I fear, the US is headed for some very serious problems in the near future.

Don't misunderstand though... the fault does not lie only with GWB! The Congress, on both sides of the aisle, is complicit in all aspects of the damage done. The Republicans are only interested in following their leader and the Democrats are such weenies that they are afraid if they don't succumb they will look like weenies... I've got news for the Dems. They ARE weenies!

Agreed!
 

moxdevil

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Observing from the UK on the running for candidacy alone, I'm a little disappointed that Edwards is out of the race, and surprised (or perhaps not) that Obama seems to be on his way as the Democrats choice despite having said nothing beyond "Hope" and "Change". Be nice if he actually articulated what he means by these mantras if only to allow for clarity. Obama's (or should it be Oprah's?) "all presentation and very little substance campaign" that is said to be appealing to the 'younger' voters, strikes me as having similarities to a certain Mr Blair's campaign in 1997 here in the UK. Did the UK wonders having him in responsibility! :rolleyes: Still, anything is better than the Republicans surely?
 

mindido

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Mox,

Holy cow! Where the heck have you been? Glad to see your still around. Kind of miss the old days when we had so many religious idiots to skewer.

Observing from the UK on the running for candidacy alone, I'm a little disappointed that Edwards is out of the race,...

I wish he would have done better also, but.....

...and surprised (or perhaps not) that Obama seems to be on his way as the Democrats choice despite having said nothing beyond "Hope" and "Change". Be nice if he actually articulated what he means by these mantras if only to allow for clarity.

I'd like to hear more of that myself. I hear that he actually did present more substance in his speech last night in Madison but I didn't watch it. We're hearing a lot more of that charge nowadays so I would think that he'll soon have to provide.

Still, anything is better than the Republicans surely?

I have this feeling (and thats all it is, a feeling) that the Republicans are going to get really spanked this year. And it will probably be awhile before they return. I sometimes think that its really hard to believe such a group could screw things up so badly. And then continue to say that it wasn't us!!! You watch Faux News and its all Bill Clinton's fault. Yeah, right.
 

Duke E. Pyle

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There are only a couple of democrats and republicans left anywhere period, i can't believe people still even put a line between the two anymore. Oh just so someone can be put to blame. You think republicans will get spanked, then hope for no real or false flag attacks on this soil or the so-called republicans will not only win but attack this entire earth until there isn't one penny left. Wait there is no penny left, yet we still pick a team to hope for like it really matters.
 

mindido

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Duke,

Thats why I'm an independent and why I've usually thrown my vote away. I don't think either of the parties actually have our interests in mind. Most all of them are bought and paid for by special interests. The only time they care is when they have to get elected. Until we get real campaign finance reform, where the public pays and special interests can't participate, we'll continue on as is. And since that is not going to happen anytime soon, the public will have little say in what happens after the elections are over.

Believe me, if someone showed up other than the current selections, I'd seriously consider them.
 

moxdevil

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Mox,

Holy cow! Where the heck have you been? Glad to see your still around. Kind of miss the old days when we had so many religious idiots to skewer.

The good ol' days. ;) I got internet fatigue.

Have this funny feeling that McCain will be president even if Obama wins the Democrat vote.
 

KABOOM

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The good ol' days. ;) I got internet fatigue.

Have this funny feeling that McCain will be president even if Obama wins the Democrat vote.

I'm getting that vibe too. Time to get current on medical stuff saying I can't serve.
 

mindido

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Have this funny feeling that McCain will be president even if Obama wins the Democrat vote.

Mox,

I think your right IF the Republicans can figure out a way to have another attack on the US just before the election. And they're certainly more than capable of that. In fact, I'm almost positive it'll happen. Then watch all the lemmings.

And I understand the fatigue.

Duke,

I have that same feeling, and Canada better put up a fence to keep out americans when he reinstates the draft to keep this hundred year war going.

You know, we should probably start a thread on being drafted. Its not a lot of fun to go through as I remember. But your right, if McCain is elected he'll have to enact a draft or downsize the military. Which isn't going to happen.

Kaboom,

I'm getting that vibe too. Time to get current on medical stuff saying I can't serve.

You should check out what Rush Limbaugh did to get out of the draft. I've heard that he had some type of boil on his ass which kept him out of the draft. If thats true, it sure is fitting. :)
 

OFFicerJACK

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Mox,

I think your right IF the Republicans can figure out a way to have another attack on the US just before the election. And they're certainly more than capable of that. In fact, I'm almost positive it'll happen. Then watch all the lemmings.
Maybe he can bomb Wisconsin. (Come on you know I'm just kidding!) :skeezy:
You know, we should probably start a thread on being drafted. Its not a lot of fun to go through as I remember. But your right, if McCain is elected he'll have to enact a draft or downsize the military. Which isn't going to happen.
You're right, it's not going to happen. The draft that is. If the Republicans were going to reinstate the draft they would have done it by now. It's the Democrats who would start the draft and the first visitor that Obama or Clinton would receive would be Charles Rangel. He seems to have backed off a little but in July '07 he wanted to reinstate the draft for racial (class -economic - whatever) balance. Check out his web page at www.rangel.house.gov

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt this Liberal circle jerk of yours. Please continue...
 
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