War In Iraq/Terrorists

Duke E. Pyle said:

Were you told that the great majority of both sides are moderates?

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I was told:

We would be in Iraq, "5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, I don't know. Certainly no longer than that."
"The insurgency is in it's last throes."

"We will be welcomed as liberators."

"Iraq has WMD's."

"I want bin Laden dead or alive"

If there is good news about any of those goals/promises, let's hear it.

Not sure if this video has been posted yet. It's a documentary called 911 Loose Change. I thought it was very interesting with some valid evidence or lack thereof. (you'll see what I mean) I like to keep an open mind about everything and this has got me thinking. This is a 2 hour video. LINK.

Preferred User said:

I was told:


We would be in Iraq, "5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, I don't know. Certainly no longer than that."

Rumsfeld three years ago​

"The insurgency is in it's last throes."

Cheney a year ago.​

"We will be welcomed as liberators."

Cheney​

"Iraq has WMD's."

Bush​

"I want bin Laden dead or alive"

Bush​

If there is good news about any of those goals/promises, let's hear it.

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There's no way you believed any of this because it all would have been good news at the time, the question was were you told that the majority of both sides are moderates. If you know what it takes to start a civil war and you were not told this then the puppet master is making you do the jig right now. Don't let people make you believe any damn thing they want you to believe folks. Wait till there is a civil war before you call it or you'll just be like every other liberal who cursed Bush over port security without knowing anything whatsoever about it. Trust me even Hillary wished she'd kept her mouth shut this time.

Duke,

You're asking me to defend a statement I never made. That's why I ignored it. At some other time let's talk about what a Civil War is...lets talk about how many states hosted battles at any one time during the US Civil War. I never said we were told there were moderates in Iraq. That's your question. I was, and still am told, that we will win. I assume "winning" includes a peaceful Iraq and we don't seem to be moving that direction.

But my sarcasm was about the way I am asked to support this war because the liberal media is ignoring the good news. I recited all those well known quotes to frame what I felt I was promised and that there is no good news on those points. If there is, please tell us instead of changing the subject.

What is the good news the liberal media is ignoring? Anyone?

Duke E. Pyle said:

There's no way you believed any of this because it all would have been good news at the time, the question was were you told that the majority of both sides are moderates.

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Duke,

I think what Preferred is saying here is that we were told a lot of things by Bush and the Neocons to justify getting us into this war. All of which have so far been shown to be either outright lies or half truths (at best). I didn't believe it in 2003, nor do I believe it now. Primarily because I've known people from the region and have had discussions with them about this subject.

Are there moderate Muslims? Of course! The thing is that they are not like us regarding religion, its virtually ingrained from childhood with no outside sources suggesting to them there are other options. So they grow up being Sunni, Shi' ite or Kurd. If you really want to start to understand their world, I'd highly recommend reading a book by Leon Uris called "The Haj". It really points out the differences between western and Islamic philosophies.

If you know what it takes to start a civil war and you were not told this then the puppet master is making you do the jig right now. Don't let people make you believe any damn thing they want you to believe folks. Wait till there is a civil war before you call it...

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So what would YOU call what is happening in Iraq at the moment? Right at this moment, Marshall Law has basically been declared (no one is allowed in the streets) in an effort to cool things down. Mosques burned; clerics, journalists and many people murdered in the last two days since a primary Shi'ite mosque was blown up.

And I'm not sure who you mean by "puppet masters" since all of the media is reporting basically the same thing. Fox News is just trying to put a more positive spin to this.

or you'll just be like every other liberal who cursed Bush over port security without knowing anything whatsoever about it. Trust me even Hillary wished she'd kept her mouth shut this time.

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Duke, the port issue isn't being led by liberals! As I said in a previous post, the leaders of the House and Senate (both Republicans) are both opposed to the port deal. ALL of the Governors affected by this deal (except GW's brother Jeb, gee, I wonder why) have come out strongly against this deal. And remember the Maryland Republican Rep. that said, "Not only no, but HELL NO!"

So your statements are totally inaccurate.

I've said from the beginning to listen only to those fighting on the ground as far as the war goes. Their words are the only ones that matter to me. Let them say we must leave and watch my tone change. Leading up to it is for another book. Look at this comment:

"So what would YOU call what is happening in Iraq at the moment? Right at this moment, Marshall Law has basically been declared (no one is allowed in the streets) in an effort to cool things down."

Do you think a small armed force can walk in the middle of a nation of two enemies in the middle of a civil war and say "please go inside or we will shoot you"? My problem is not at all with the story itself but the lack of facts to go along with it. Enough facts were left out to lead many americans to believe the US occupancy was a main factor in all this without even saying it. What would i call what is happening? By comparison to the stories i would say 500 men are standing in a line and 2 of them get into a fight... with a potential for worse.

About the port issue. No its not being led by liberals but this is an instance of political unfairness in the fact that so many made an instant judgement on it without the facts. They didn't know the plus's involved and all the lack of changes that would take place, so the unfairness comes where the libs have to stand strong on their judgements where the conservatives can say we've changed our minds and stand behind the president. Lets face it, the flip-flop slogans still haunt. And since Hilary thinks we shouldn't affiliate with the same allies as her husband made speechs to for 100's of g's then the libs problem is apparent.

Duke E. Pyle said:

I've said from the beginning to listen only to those fighting on the ground as far as the war goes. Their words are the only ones that matter to me. Let them say we must leave and watch my tone change.

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OK Duke,

There are at least 7 or 8 veterans of the current war that are now running for Congress from all over the country. At least 5 or 6 of them are running as Democrats. One of the news shows had 5 of them on at the same time a few weeks ago and virtually all of them are now against what we are doing in Iraq. Also, Rep. Jack Murtha, a 30+ year veteran of the Marines and regarded as the voice of the enlisted man in Congress, has now come out strongly against what we are doing in Iraq. He has been saying for several months now that we are in the middle of a civil war and need to get our troops out of the middle of it. Those are the voices of troops that I've heard recently. You've not heard any of them?

Do you think a small armed force can walk in the middle of a nation of two enemies in the middle of a civil war and say "please go inside or we will shoot you"?

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Not for long! The curfew has now been extended another day but that can't last for long, maybe a week or so if we're lucky. But, from everything I've been seeing and reading over the last couple of days, from both sides, everyone is basically holding their fingers crossed.

My problem is not at all with the story itself but the lack of facts to go along with it. Enough facts were left out to lead many americans to believe the US occupancy was a main factor in all this without even saying it.

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Then I would suggest you spend a bit more time reading many news sources and/or watching CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and whatever other sources you want. Because, at the moment, they're all saying basically the same thing. Iraq is right now at the precipace and the next few days are critical. Civil war may be at hand and what do we do? Get in the middle of it? If we do, that would be totally insane.

What would i call what is happening? By comparison to the stories i would say 500 men are standing in a line and 2 of them get into a fight... with a potential for worse.

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I think you'd better check your numbers. Sunni clerics are claiming that about 180 Sunni mosques have either been burned or blown up. This is unverified but if your a Sunni, not good news and reason to go looking for a Shi'ite to blow away. At least several hundred people have been murdered since Wednesday, Sunni and Shia, and the primary Shia Imam is asking for people to cool off. That sounds like a very dangerous situation to me.

About the port issue. No its not being led by liberals but this is an instance of political unfairness in the fact that so many made an instant judgement on it without the facts.

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That is exactly the problem. This deal, as is being demonstrated by the facts now coming out, was rushed through. The usual 45 day investigation period was cut to 25 days (not enough time to do any type of real investigation). Clauses usually included in such deals were omitted. Why? Is it really a good idea to allow the management of a port facility to be run by a foreign government? Especially a government that was only one of three in the world to recognize the Taliban? And there is more..... a lot more that is now coming out.

They didn't know the plus's involved and all the lack of changes that would take place, so the unfairness comes where the libs have to stand strong on their judgements where the conservatives can say we've changed our minds and stand behind the president.

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I'd take a bet on this one. Bush will lose on this and it won't be because of the Democrats. Remember what the Republican member of Congress from Maryland said, "Not only No, but HELL NO!" Awfully hard to go back on that one.

Lets face it, the flip-flop slogans still haunt. And since Hilary thinks we shouldn't affiliate with the same allies as her husband made speechs to for 100's of g's then the libs problem is apparent.

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Sorry Duke, thats BS. Bush is going to lose big on this one. And one other thing that I heard tonight (on Fox News (if you can believe that) as well as CNN).

Do you remember that little incident back in 1999 that all conservatives love to point out when they're bitching about the Clinton administration. You know the one, the one where we had an opportunity to take out Bin Laden with a missle at a hunting camp in Afganistan? But we didn't because there were some members of the royal family in attendance. Guess what? Those weren't members of the Saudi royal family, they were members of the Emirates royal family! And these are the people that are going to be running six our our largest ports???

Wake up Duke, pay attention.

Duke E. Pyle said:

My problem is not at all with the story itself but the lack of facts to go along with it. Enough facts were left out to lead many americans to believe the US occupancy was a main factor in all this without even saying it.

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Duke, I'm asking again, what facts are being left out?

This is a theme I hear over and over but no one can tell me what these facts are and the source for these facts.

What is the good news the liberal media is ignorning? Anyone?

Duke,

the US occupancy was a main factor in all this without even saying it.

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Any way you look at this, the US IS responsible for what is happening in Iraq today. We invaded and removed their dictator. Granted, Saddam was an ass, but he was their ass. We didn't NEED to remove him but the Bushies thought it would be a good idea so they made up a bunch of lies and sold them to most everyone.

Many people tried to tell GW this wasn't a good idea, including his father, but he went ahead anyway. Remember what Colin Powell told him (using the supposed Pottery Barn policy), "You break it, you own it"?

So there is no doubt that we are responsible for the current situation.

Preferred User said:

Duke, I'm asking again, what facts are being left out?

This is a theme I hear over and over but no one can tell me what these facts are and the source for these facts.

What is the good news the liberal media is ignorning? Anyone?

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Pretty good example of why i always pull away from here. It goes from "facts being left out" to "good news being ignored" You keep asking for the good news being left out but we've moved on from that ever since the elections were left out, and the fact that information from the winning bidders that have prevented terrorist attacks on our soil are scarcely being mentioned solidifies the constant search for good news is never ending and never found. Can we focus on facts. If we know so much about what is going on then why are the facts we know of coming out in 1 minute interviews on each station and not during news broadcasts. You seem to think that we are getting all this great port knowledge from all the stations yet Hannity and Colmbs sit up there dying to ask whoever they can about what is going on and they get paid to know. I can't say i have determined it to be a good thing or not because i don't know. All i can say is that it must be on shakey ground if Jimmy Carter approves it, but i can promise you that i'll wait to know more. preferred we don't have to agree on this or anything but thats ok okay? I read you loud and clear buddy.

Nizzle said:

Not sure if this video has been posted yet. It's a documentary called 911 Loose Change. I thought it was very interesting with some valid evidence or lack thereof. (you'll see what I mean) I like to keep an open mind about everything and this has got me thinking. This is a 2 hour video. LINK.

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Nizzle,

Finally got a little time to download and watch that. Holy cow, I hope that is not accurate! About three quarters of the way through I was actually shaking. Definitely worth a view and does raise some interesting questions. And I hate to say it but some of the points it makes are things that I've wondered about. Especially the cell phones working at 32,000 ft.

Thanks for the heads up.

Duke E. Pyle said:

It goes from "facts being left out" to "good news being ignored" You keep asking for the good news being left out but we've moved on from that ever since the elections were left out,

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The elections were NOT left out. All I saw for a few days was pictures of Iraqi's with blue fingers. I thought it was great too. Now I'm thinking the Sunni/Shiite violence is making that election less meaningful every day, but Bush backers tell me the liberal media is ignoring the good news in Iraq.

And to this day I've not heard an answer. What good news? Anyone?

What good news!?! Haven't you heard. The Iraqi people have turned the insurgents into baby carrots to feed the mountain goats. The war has been won! Superman has been called in to protect the ports and both major parties have combined into one called the republicrat's and we all live in utopia now. Where the fuck have you been?

On the lighter side, it is now 1031 days since GW proclaimed "Misson Accomplished" on the deck of that aircraft carrier.

Try here Preferred:

http://www.goodnewsiraq.com/index2.htm

It's like a game of hide and seek with good news. The first items on the list of news when I looked at this page for the first time was "Terrorist bomb kills ten Iraqis."

Woo hoo! Start this party up! That's good news, right? Because we hate Iraqis, and love terrorists. So that's clearly good news.

Whoa! Jeez! Ouch! Endy! What the heck ya doing?

I haven't been covered with that much crap since I was a little kid cleaning out horse and pheasant barns!

Oh man, gotta go take another shower. Thanks alot.

Interesting site Endy. Had to mute my speakers first. I'm thinking the headline "Two Years In Iraq" is bad news from the get go seeing as how we were only going to be there a few months.

God as my witness Endy, you live on the other side of the globe and you might have as good a feel as I for why so many Americans need to convince themselves this war is a great idea.

man you still holding on to the good news bit huh. Blue fingers? The color was purple you must have gotten it confused with a joke about it on the Jon Stewart show who was pretty much the only person to cover it contrary to what you say. If you ask what good news then why can't you ask what false news? Wouldn't false news be a far worse and left leaning case than good news? I mean its more important to you to prove the media isn't left than anything else in the political world right?

Duke here's why. I'm just tired of the "liberal media" excuse from Bushies. They seem to believe whatever they want, and when you give them facts that counter their opinion, they blame it on the liberal media. You could say the sky is green and support it with that logic. Anything they don't like gets swept away because of the liberal media.

In the case of Iraq, I thought it was a dumb thing from the start. Now that we're there 2 1/2 years past what we were told, I keep hearing the liberal media is ignorning the good news. No one can tell me the good news, but it's being ignored.

I'm a very independant voter. I've voted both ways and can't stand the idea of working inside either party. But this Bush crowd is killing us Duke. Just killing us. And they refuse to look at facts. When you ask them to look at facts, it's just excuses.

That reminds me: Jerry Springer and Sean Hannity are having a debate-off surely for charity. Two men with balls and knowledge man i'd love to see that shit. If it's not televised i hope it makes its way to the internet. Don't tell me you wouldn't watch it.