Is America a Christian Nation?

I keep hearing people like Bill O'Reilly and Sarah Palin and many others, including a lot of the cleric saying that the US is a Christian nation. What do you think?

Well you do pray a lot, and if any of you wins an award you ALWAYS thank JC or god (not the same thing) before your family.

I don't think this subject is apropriate here.
The Americans are under Jewish supervision (and they know that) and they are made believe they have to be good Christians.
It is better to avoid this kind of discussions on this forum.

GrapJ said:

The Americans are under Jewish supervision (and they know that) and they are made believe they have to be good Christians.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what this means...
Of course the US is a Christian nation just about every western and industrial state is...
but it purports not to be a Christian State... and that is where the problems lie, because about half of the population think it is already or should be...

Thats what will keep them busy for hundreds of years.

I don't want to get into that because this is not the forum for it.

Only in the sheep-like minds in the herds of organized religious zealots all around the world!

Ok, you guys are pretty much straying away from the question at hand. I didn't get the Jewish supervision comment either, no offense. But regardless, that wasn't the question...

What I meant was many Christian groups here, usually to the right politically, claim that this is a Christian nation, founded on Christian precepts. Others say it is not...it is a multi-faith based nation. What are the arguments for and against? If you believe it is..or isn't...why?

Don't just say it is, or isn't..or insult proponents of either belief, tell us why! Support your answer with history, or politics, or logic!

If you exclude the people that were on the continent first and those that were brought to the US in chains, just about everyone that set up the US was a Christian. there were only a few Jews [and they were not welcomed with open arms] and I doubt that there were any Muslims [that were not slaves], Hindus or Sikhs until well in to the 19C.
but probably more importantly they had all be born into Christian based societies and education systems. the rule of law in the US is based on precepts that were derived from Christian/ecclesiastical law of the late middle-ages of Britain and Germany. there is an argument that those laws were derived from Roman law that was derived from Greek law and now you are back to 500BC and asking the Persians and Babylonians their opinion...
so yes as far as it is relevant the US is a Christian country [just as Britain, Greece, Russian and France are], but [I again say] what is it not is a religious [Christian] State that makes it a prerequisite that the Christian religion is dominant over all others.
I would be fairly confident in saying that some [as you say right wing] Christian groups do want this predominance. for me this is where thing get complicated... some and only a few "Christian" groups appear racist/exclusionist/homophobic... and more [although not many] racist groups use Christian language to justify their positions, be it anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-immigration or anti-Islamic. actually for a few of them their views aren't that different from many muslin or Hindu extremist groups once you get passed the different names for god... it seems to boil down to "we are right, you are wrong, do as we say or we will kill you - god told us to do this"
as for facts - there are precious few - you are talking about religion it is all about faith and belief and interpretation. there are like 60 versions of the bible and at least a dozen versions of the Koran that I know of and I'm not an expert in either...
I speak as not a Christian [Hindu, Muslim or Jew] nor as an American Citizen.

Well, that was good...anyone else?

(Of course, I'm reserving my opinion, and will post it as the thread progresses)...

The First Amendment

From the outside, looking in:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Click to expand...

That is:

• No law to establish any religion.
• No law to forbid the free exercise of any religion.
• No law to restrict the right of the people to assemble, which would include a religious assembly, such as Mass or Friday Prayers.
• No law to limit the freedom of speech, including the freedom to express and discuss religious views or the freedom to preach and to pray.

The constitution is unequivocal about this. America does not recognise a state religion. America is by law a secular country. America does not ban anyone from following their religious conscience as long as they obey the criminal law when doing so. A Christian lobby group which argues for it's supporters' right to follow their conscience is exercising it's First Amendment rights. A Christian (or any other religious) lobby group who tries to remould America to suit their religious template, for example by re-writing the constitution to prohibit divorce because it is against the Word of God, is acting treasonably against the Republic.

This is why America has a constitution, isn't it?

Let me throw in my two cents. In the first case, the religious right is always trying to paint the founding fathers as Christians. The fact is, most of them were Deists, like Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin. They believed in God, but thought he created the universe and left the rest to us. They didn't believe God listened to prayers, or intervined in our everyday business. They did not believe in any of the miracles in the bible. As a matter of fact, Jefferson wrote his own version, the Jefferson Bible, which had no mention of the virgin birth, resurrection, or any of the supernatural feats of the bible.

The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not once. The Palin bunch like to say that "nowhere in the Constitution does seperation of church and state exist". And they're right...nowhere does the phrase exist. But as scounds alluded to, the meat of the matter is very much present. Jefferson made sure of that, he was determined that the government would never be subject to any religious belief system, or have a official national religion, such as England did. He also wrote that the power of the government would come from the governed, not from the rule of kings, who were supposedly led by God.

As a matter of fact, in the 1796 treaty with Tripoli an amendment stated that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion"!



Lastly, comes the Constitution and the Bible themselves. The first amendment of the Constitution goes directly against the first two commandments. The first commandment says to have no other gods before you. The Constitution says you can worship any god you like..Buddha, Krisna, even Satan. Or no god at all!

The second commandment says to make no graven images or false idols. The Constitution says you build a pile of dogshit in your backyard and worship it if you so wish. That don't sound like a Christian nation to me. Thank God!

Brianwp said:

That don't sound like a Christian nation to me. Thank God!

Click to expand...

You make a lot of valid points that I can only counter by asking...
When was the last President that expressly non-Christian elected?
I can't think of one in the last 60+ years if ever and it is unlikely that a future candidate would even be selected if they were not overtly Christian. [in the UK, France Germany and many other European countries - overt displays of religion are a political handicap, not a requisite]
There is a massive difference between what the rules say and what happens in reality everywhere but definitely over religion in the US.
Officially you are absolutely right, America is not a Christian State. But I still say it is a Christian country... that tolerates difference.

Well, yeah, you're right, Joe. Christianity has been a prerequisite to becoming President, (at least symbolically, I don't think they were all really that Christian, most of it was for show), and that bothers me. It has become a trend, and since George Bush the Religious Right has tried to make it a qualification.

Say it ain't so, Joe! (A little Sarah Palin for ya, wink wink).:mrgreen:

Religious fundamentalism has risen to new heights in this country by attaching itself like a scavenger to the soft white underbelly of the Republican party. And that really worries me. Religion's bony, withered claw has once again grasped for our throat, and now it's come full circle. We're blindly and arrogantly marching backwards through time, with flags waving and drums drumming..back into the ignorance that brought us to these shores in the first place.

(Wow, I'm waxing poetic tonight, innit?)

Simple question, IF the US was founded on Christian values, which ones were they?

Turn the other cheek?
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's?
Blessed are the peacemakers?
Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there?
Blessed are the meek?

Which particular Christian values, as expressed by Jesus, did the armed revolt against an established government embody?

Is America a Christian Nation?

Click to expand...

Is the Pope Catholic?

Is water wet?

Is the sky blue?


Yes, to all of the above.

ottovonottoman said:

Simple question, IF the US was founded on Christian values, which ones were they?

Click to expand...

"Simple question, IF the US was founded on Christian values, which ones were they?

Turn the other cheek?"

No, we're not too good at that.

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's?"

Well, yeah, that's what it's supposed to be. Jesus had the right idea there, it's called "seperation of church and state".
"Blessed are the peacemakers?"

Yeah, I'm sure they are, and we used to be, but unfortunately I can't say that about us anymore.

"Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there?"

That's a rough translation, but yes, according to scripture we're supposed to obey those in power because God has supposedly put them there. (Are you listening, Obama haters?) Of course, it's kinda hard to understand, because that means he put Ahmadinejad in power, also.
"Blessed are the meek?"

Again, the USA isn't too good at the meek thing.

"Which particular Christian values, as expressed by Jesus, did the armed revolt against an established government embody?"

I guess you're talking about the revolt against Mother England, in which case I have to answer...none, actually. Of course, that was my point in the first place. We are not now or have we ever been a Christian nation.

Is the US populated by a majority of Christians? Yes.

Is the country set up to be a Christian nation? No.

Do the majority regret the second point? Yes. I think both sides of the pro/anti religious sides would agree to that!

ps. Go read Hitchens, wake up, and enjoy the one life you get.

Jews control America

nxman said:

Jews control America

Click to expand...

If you read the Gospels, it would be hard to describe the U.S. as a nation of Christians, let alone a "Christian nation." Whoever said Bill O and Sarah knew what they were talking about?
Furthermore, if you read the writings and letters of the founders of this republic, it's pretty clear that this nation was founded by a bunch of Freemasons on Masonic principles. They firmly believed in the separation of church and state, and felt that nothing but mischief could be achieved by mixing the two.