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Religious Right, right?

mindido

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OK. I'm getting really tired of idiots like Pat Robertson, and others of his ilk, that continue the propaganda that the founding fathers of the US intended this to be a christain nation. In fact, I have some info that they were just as ticked (and recognized the threat) as some of us are today.

I learned a story quite a while ago which I will impart if there is any interest. But first I need to know if anyone out there knows what this is:



There are at least two correct answers. One fairly well known and the other held secret.

Any takers?
 

kingpin51

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i have no idea what the numbers mean but i do agree with u about the founding fathers. They defeniatley did not intend the USA to be a Christian state especially since all of the founding fathers were deists.
 

Nizzle

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One of them is township numbering for surveying. Flukey how I know this...used to live in PA.
 

moxdevil

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Deists and Unitarians. And some had arrived at these beliefs because of State-enforced religious beliefs in the European countries their ancestors had fleed from.

Whats the other?

Oh yeah and haven't got a clue as to the numbers.
 
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mindido

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Nizzle,

Correct! That is the more commonly known answer. This is the typical township that is used to define property descriptions throughout most of the US (this was not used in the original 13 colonies). A township is approximately 6 miles x 6 miles and each of the squares interior of the square is known as a Section, equalling about 1 square mile. If you own property in areas where this is used (its technically known as the PLSS, Public Land Survey System) you should be familiar with this as it defines your land.

OK, now how about the secret one?
 
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Texan

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kingpin51 said:
i have no idea what the numbers mean but i do agree with u about the founding fathers. They defeniatley did not intend the USA to be a Christian state especially since all of the founding fathers were deists.

To be a deists you must first believe in God. Not all of the founding fathers were deists.

The founding fathers did not want a religion forced upon the citizens of their new country, after all religious tyranny is the reason why the pilgrims first came to America. The founding fathers intent was tolerance of all religions.
 

Nizzle

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mindido said:
Nizzle,

Correct!
Sweet, though I haven't seen those reps yet :mrgreen:

Does the second answer have anything to do with Satan's Square? I know all the numbers add to 666.
 

Cman

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DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE HIDDEN MAP ON THE BACK OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE! :lol:

I don't know what that picture is supposed to be, but its not hard to figure out the pattern. The numbers are in order, they just zig zag.
 

Iceberg

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Texan said:
The founding fathers did not want a religion forced upon the citizens of their new country, after all religious tyranny is the reason why the pilgrims first came to America. The founding fathers intent was tolerance of all religions.

And this is what Robertson, et al. want to do to America. Make it a religious tyranny with Christian fundamentalism as the religion forced down everyone's throat.

This is similar to the Islamic fundamentalists (such as the Taliban) who force their version of their religion down people's throats. They were one of the most intolerant societies the world has seen over the last century, and the Christian Right (i.e. "Moral Majority" pukes) want to have the same system in place in the US.
 

Texan

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Iceberg said:
And this is what Robertson, et al. want to do to America. Make it a religious tyranny with Christian fundamentalism as the religion forced down everyone's throat.

This is similar to the Islamic fundamentalists (such as the Taliban) who force their version of their religion down people's throats. They were one of the most intolerant societies the world has seen over the last century, and the Christian Right (i.e. "Moral Majority" pukes) want to have the same system in place in the US.

I have yet to see any branch of the government force a particular religion on anybody. Pat Robertson does not want a national religion, nor does he want to force his religion down the throats of american's. First nazi germany, now the taliban, is that what those dipshits on airhead america are saying today?
 

moxdevil

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Iceberg said:
And this is what Robertson, et al. want to do to America. Make it a religious tyranny with Christian fundamentalism as the religion forced down everyone's throat.

This is similar to the Islamic fundamentalists (such as the Taliban) who force their version of their religion down people's throats. They were one of the most intolerant societies the world has seen over the last century, and the Christian Right (i.e. "Moral Majority" pukes) want to have the same system in place in the US.

The way i see it is that three fundamentalists are central to the problems we are faced with in the world today. Namely, Christian fundamentalism as seen in America and increasingly in England and Europe, Islamic fundamentalism that is spreading out from the Islamic world, and Jewish Fundamentalism that is rife within the Israeli government and in Western politics.

Min, tell us the secret one for crying out loud! :mrgreen:
 

mindido

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Nizzle,

"Does the second answer have anything to do with Satan's Square? I know all the numbers add to 666."

Correct again! Darn, I thought this would last a bit longer. I guess we have some fairly knowledgeable people around here.

I've never heard of this referred to as "Satan's Square" but that does make a certain amount of sense. And you are also correct about all of the numbers adding up to 666. I've always known it as a "magic square", of which there are hundreds or thousands:

http://mathforum.org/alejandre/magic.square.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/MagicSquare.html

OK, heres the story as was told to me by one of my Civil Engineering prof's way back when.

CMan recognized a portion of this when he said, "The numbers are in order, they just zig zag." They do zig zag (this is called serpentine) but notice that the numbers start out backward (with one being at the top right corner). If this were a "normal" square one would think the one would be at the top left and run consecutively left to right.

The "magic" of the square is that if one adds up all of the vertical columns you'll find that each column adds up to 111. Multiply 111 times 6 = 666!

Why in the world would the "devils number" be used to define virtually all of our property descriptions?

Here's the story as I understand it.

The founding fathers had a significant problem concerning apportioning land. At that time the primary method for defining a piece of land was the "metes and bounds" method. Basically, this means that someone would define their land as, "start at a particular rock, go west for a certain distance to another rock, then north for a certain distance to a bend in the river, then east for a certain distance to a blaze in a tree (or whatever), and then south for a certain distance to the point of beginning."

As one can imagine, this method creates major headaches for everyone involved. Rocks and rivers move, trees die or are cut down, etc. Sometimes (as in the case of Daniel Boone in Kentucky and Tennessee) these parcels would encompass hundreds of thousands of acres so a particular marker could be miles from the last marker. Even today, if you live in any of the 13 colonies or Kentucky or Tennessee, you can run into problems with your property if there is a dispute about a particular original marker.

So, what to do? As is well known, both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were surveyors and thus very familiar with the problem. What is less well known is that 13 of the original signers of the Constitution were freemasons. Washington and Franklin definitely were but there is some question if Thomas Paine and Jefferson were.

I don't want to get into a big debate about freemasonry as I really don't know much about them other than they do exist and are believed to hold information thought to be lost during the dark ages.

The signers had another problem with the religious right (primarily the followers of Cotton Mather) that wanted the US to be a totally christain nation. As noted by others in this thread, the founders well remembered that many had fled religious persecution in Europe, so the idea of a totally christain US was abhorrent (particularly to Paine).

So, as I understand the story, the founders decided to kill two birds with one stone. They developed the PLSS and decided to use this square as the basis of it. Why this square? Why not use a normal square? The founders knew that, once implemented, this square would be with us for as long as the US lasts (all of todays property descriptions are based on it). They also knew that people like Mather would always be around giving us a hard time. So, the founders left us a message, although not overt, that they recognized the problem and had done something that would always be a thorn in the christains sides. Even if they didn't recognize it.

Can any of this be proven? Some yes and some no. It is a story told to me by an engineering prof. that should know something about the subject.
 

Cman

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cman said:
DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE HIDDEN MAP ON THE BACK OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE! :lol:

mindido said:
What is less well known is that 13 of the original signers of the Constitution were freemasons. Washington and Franklin definitely were but there is some question if Thomas Paine and Jefferson were.

I don't want to get into a big debate about freemasonry as I really don't know much about them other than they do exist and are believed to hold information thought to be lost during the dark ages.

yay! someone else saw National Treasure! hahahaha
 

mindido

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CMan,

"yay! someone else saw National Treasure!"

Whats National Treasure?
 

Red Horse

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There's an owl hidden on the U.S. one dollar bill...we won't even go into the pyramid with the "all-seeing eye"...Min, I absolutely love conspiracy theories (and I do know about the masons...my dad was one...am I?...if I told you, I'd have to kill you lol)...but geez, 200-odd year old secret compacts still being able to have some control over government? Especially Dubya's? I do, however, absolutely agree with you that there is an agenda between Dubya and the religious right...if they do get their way (God forbid), two hundred years from now will they be seen in the same way as the founding fathers of America?
Keep this kind of topic up...this is the stuff that I really enjoy reading here lol.
 

moxdevil

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Who here knows what the 'all seeing eye' means and from where it originates?
 
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