War In Iraq/Terrorists

Zini,

" I'd like to know why Saudi Arabia have never been accused of harbouring Terrorists.... "

The answer is simple. The Saud family is very close to the Bush family. They did buy out gw when his little oil company failed. No big secret there.

mindido said:

Zini,

" I'd like to know why Saudi Arabia have never been accused of harbouring Terrorists.... "

The answer is simple. The Saud family is very close to the Bush family. They did buy out gw when his little oil company failed. No big secret there.

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Yeah I realised that I just wanted to point out how fucked up the politics are behind the scenes...
and ITS ALL REALLY ONLY ABOUT DESTROYING THE TERRORIST THREAT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE REST OF THE WORLD... yeah right

Sorry to jump in with something of a tangent, but did anyone hear about how bin Laden planned to poison tons of cocaine destined for the western markets (the US mainly)? The plan didn't go through because the Colombian drug lords thought it'd be bad for business...the irony is delicious...

Texan, this one is directed at something you said previously about the "liberal media" turning people against the soldiers in the war. You can't honestly believe that, can you? I'm a true-blue liberal and I don't support the war in Iraq, but I do support the troops. Anyone who doesn't support the troops is a fucking idiot. I really don't care what the reason anyone would have for not supporting the troops is, its not good enough. They're just doing a job. They themselves aren't responsible for the war. As someone said previously, its not the people fighting the war, its the people who started it that we're not supporting. Oh, and buying a yellow ribbon that says "Support Our Troops" does not actually support the troops. Those ribbons might as well say "Support Our Sticker Manufacturer" because thats what they're doing.

WholeLottaZep said:

Texan, this one is directed at something you said previously about the "liberal media" turning people against the soldiers in the war. You can't honestly believe that, can you? I'm a true-blue liberal and I don't support the war in Iraq, but I do support the troops. Anyone who doesn't support the troops is a fucking idiot. I really don't care what the reason anyone would have for not supporting the troops is, its not good enough. They're just doing a job. They themselves aren't responsible for the war. As someone said previously, its not the people fighting the war, its the people who started it that we're not supporting. Oh, and buying a yellow ribbon that says "Support Our Troops" does not actually support the troops. Those ribbons might as well say "Support Our Sticker Manufacturer" because thats what they're doing.

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Wow, where do I start?

Liberal media...beating a dead horse

True-blue liberal...Is this Al Frakken?

Okay the troops, by not supporting the mission, you can not support the troops by default. Let me explain, by not supporting the mission you are in turn demoralizing the troops and thus not supporting the troops. Place yourself in their boots, you are in a foreign country fighting war and every time you catch a glimpse of television you see people protesting what you are doing, that my liberal friend is demoralizing.

By the same token a lot of those troops there don't want to be there, nor understand or agree with them being where they are. They are not mindless robots who think as one and exactly as their politicians want. Unless the American troops have a completely different attitude to their experience in Iraq, i know for a fact that many of the British troops don't want to be there. My brother for one, and if his letters are trustworthy the majority of his unit, which includes American forces working side-by-side with British units.

They are doing a job, but to suggest that we at home should show no dissent because it would affect their morale, well for one they themselves though doing a job don't often agree with the people who send them, ie the politicians, so to find that there are those who agree with them at home, i don't see how this would greatly effect them in regard to morale.

Anyone would think that they are completely ignorant to past feelings towards wars, they know that not everybody gets behind it; but this shouldn't be equated with the idea that because you don't agree with a politician's decision you are rejecting the people who are serving their country overseas.

I agree, Mox.

Veterans didn't fight so dissent could be called "unpatriotic." Veterans fought (and today's soldiers fight) so we could be free to espouse whatever political views we feel are right.

As Mox said:

They are doing a job, but to suggest that we at home should show no dissent because it would affect their morale, well for one they themselves though doing a job don't often agree with the people who send them, ie the politicians, so to find that there are those who agree with them at home, i don't see how this would greatly effect them in regard to morale.

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The most demoralising aspect the American soldiers are dealing with is the lack of equipment (due to budgetary cuts made by the Administration), lack of support from other nations' militaries (because some President decided to go to war before building a large enough coalition to get the job done with as few casualties, military and civilian, as possible), and the knowledge that when they get back from their tours of duty, they will be subject to greatly-reduced veterans' benefits as a result of Bush's war on the budget (i.e. his insane tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% and budgetary cuts which strip health care and education budgets to skeletons of their old selves).

Iceberg said:

The most demoralising aspect the soldiers are dealing with is the lack of equipment (due to budgetary cuts made by the Administration), lack of support from other nations' militaries (because some President decided to go to war before building a large enough coalition to get the job done with as few casualties, military and civilian, as possible), and the knowledge that when they get back from their tours of duty (the American soldiers, that is), they will be subject to greatly-reduced veterans' benefits as a result of Bush's war on the budget (i.e. his insane tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% and budgetary cuts which strip health care and education budgets to skeletons of their old selves).

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I might have mentioned this before; my brother is in the Royal Engineers stationed in Basra, (last i heard anyway though he's coming back in a month for good). I don’t mention this to claim some sort of ‘special’ insight or position; I’d be very surprised if others on this forum don’t too have loved ones over there or in Afghanistan or some other combat zone. Anyway it's the second time he's been out there due to 'shortage of specialised personnel'. He's against the war, plus as you have mentioned Iceberg the equipment and preparation has been an absolute shambles and would have to be a major contributing factor to loss of morale, (at least for the Brits stationed at Basra). One such example- when his unit got there they were issued with the standard green combat gear, including the standard boots, which were found to melt in the sand and heat. Guns didn't work or ammunition didn't arrive until days later, needless to say they found themselves borrowing off the Americans for basic desert gear. The last thing on his mind was 'oh dear people back home don't agree with this war'.

True, Mox, and they're suffering through far hotter than normal conditions these days. A day or two ago, it was 48 C (118 F) in Baghdad.

Now the military needs not to "Smoke 'em out" as Bush said. The temperature can do it itself.

This is a humourous take on the evidence :mrgreen:

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/oily_grail1.htm

all sides can bollock me if you want, but i couldn't let it not be seen. :lol:

Hey Tex,

You still think there is no correlation between Iraq and Viet Nam?

From Post #5

"Nothing close to Viet Nam"

Seems Henry Kissinger doesn't agree with you either. And he should have a pretty good idea as he was one of the architects of that war.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/15/us.iraq/index.html

I agree with Kissinger, like vietnam, the anti-war freaks are going to divide this country. The only saving grace is the majority of americans still support the war.

Uh Tex,

"the majority of americans still support the war."

Where did you hear this from? Everything I've seen or read lately suggests the opposite.

mindido said:

Uh Tex,

"the majority of americans still support the war."

Where did you hear this from? Everything I've seen or read lately suggests the opposite.

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Yet another example of the liberal media at work.

Tex,

Didn't answer my question. Where did your info come from? What polls? Wherever?

I don't think the media has much to do with it as I've seen this reported on fox news. Although they certainly downplay it and move on quickly.

Texan said:

If you want to keep bitching and complaining about Amercia, become a voting citizen of the greatest nation on earth.

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how would that help when the elections are rigged?

CMan,

Good point! Have you seen that the current republican governor of Ohio is now in major trouble for corruption. Early in the investigation I guess but just goes to show that corruption is ever more widespread. How long can a society last when corrupt? Not long, just study the Romans.

Yeah lets not forget ChinaGate

Has anyone else noticed that certain statements are made, but, when asked to back something up, it never happens?

C'mon Tex!

i can back it up if you want me too. i'm well versed in criticizing the US :lol: