Environmental Issues

[Iceberg]

More news:

"Report: Ice-free Arctic summers possible by 2100":

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/09/28/arctic.melting.reut/index.html

"Warm climate transforms Alaska terrain":

http://us.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/09/28/environment.alaska.reut/index.html

 

[cableguy]

i was hoping that after i read the drivel about us having gone too far in the global warming thing this argument would die down... after all, if we have passed the tipping point, the battle has been lost, and the fighting can stop...

enviros are responsible for flooding new orleans.. enviros are responsible for fuel costs being what they are... enviros are responsible for fiscally, environmentally, and economically irresponsible programs such as ethanol and fuel formulation laws that differ from state to state and even sometimes within states.. enviros are responsible for raising the cost of EVERYTHING well above what it would sell for in a free market not bound by overregulation...

checkmate...

i am sure that pipedreams.org will have some pat response to this, either by twisting something, ignoring something, or simply making it up... i have long realized that the global cooling--i mean warming--argument immediately takes everything that wasnt the same as last year and blames industry for a problem that may not exist... i have also seen a willingness to ignore the truth, and even fabricate claims out of whole cloth...

iceberg, mindido, you may feel free to push the panic button... i will go about living my life, and your premise is still wrong...

 

[mindido]

cable,

Environmentalists responsible for everything????

Now I know you've gone off the deep end.

 

[cableguy]

my bad, i should have said irresponsible... and no, not for everything... i will stand by what i said, though... enviros are against any construction of anything, anywhere... this includes the new orleans levys, any oil production or processing structures, and factories that make things we buy (and employ people--in manufacturing jobs, nonetheless).. ethanol is the worst boondoggle to hit this nation since light rail... it costs a fortune, kills engines, creates more pollution in its production than it saves in its use, and uses more petroleum products in its production than it saves in its use... not too environmentally or economically friendly... enviros push for fuel formulation laws that PREVENT the shipping of gasoline and/or deisel fuel between different states...

add that up, and apply it to the economy, and you will see that with rules that dont make sense, policies that are complete lies, and regulations that are nothing but punative, the cost of producing ANYTHING goes up beyond the free market level... i await any response to this that can refute any claim i have made...

*****EDIT*****

just so i know, where is the link between President Bush and/or global warming and the earthquake in pakistan that killed over 18,000 (or over 25,000 by one unconfirmed report--current date/time 10/9/05, 1:40AM)??? oh, and what could we have done to prevent it from happening??

 

[Iceberg]

Cable, what you're saying is completely irrational. So much so, I cannot respond to it.

 

[t3sqr]

Way to go Cable... You finally did it!!! You finally were able to leave Ice speechless!! This is a day to remember. But don't forget...the lib's always have some else to blame for everything. And Bush being a president that acts instead of yaks, he will always be a target. If you do nothing... you make no mistakes! That make Clinton Perfect.
As far as Pakistan's earthquake, Sumatra's Tsunami, Hurricane's Katrina and Rita... It's all Bush's fault

 

[mindido]

t3sqr,

There is a significant difference between being speechless and unable to respond to the rantings of a loon.

 

[Texan]

t3sqr,

There is a significant difference between being speechless and unable to respond to the rantings of a loon.

Now you know how conservatives feel talking to liberals

 

[Iceberg]

Tex, it's more like the opposite.

Notice how many loudmouths conservatives there are (Limbaugh, Coulter, O'Reilly, Hannity, et al), spewing out ignorant horse manure, while so few liberals are this way. Liberals just don't want to wallow in this crap so they stay as far away to avoid getting stinky.

Liberals certainly have a lot more class and actually think out a rational answer than conservatives do, at least stereotypically. (There are a few, very few, liberals who are not so rational, but these numbers are so minuscule in comparison with those on the Right.)

 

[swede68]

No matter what happens, this planet WILL rebound. Might take a couple o' thousand years, but no matter what mankind might throw at it, after we're gone, the earth will recover....

We, as a human race are like a virus. We take over...then destroy almost everyting in our path ... Sad ...

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

Tex, it's more like the opposite.

Notice how many loudmouths conservatives there are (Limbaugh, Coulter, O'Reilly, Hannity, et al), spewing out ignorant horse manure, while so few liberals are this way. Liberals just don't want to wallow in this crap so they stay as far away to avoid getting stinky.

Liberals certainly have a lot more class and actually think out a rational answer than conservatives do, at least stereotypically. (There are a few, very few, liberals who are not so rational, but these numbers are so minuscule in comparison with those on the Right.)

Hahhahahahahahahaha the part where you said liberals have more class hahahaha you're killing me!! wooooo haha Liberals wish they could have a talk show to spit out horse manure, only no one would listen. Do a search on political radio audiences if you think i'm lying. And thanks for starting my day off with a good laugh man, i needed it.

 

[Texan]

Tex, it's more like the opposite.

Notice how many loudmouths conservatives there are (Limbaugh, Coulter, O'Reilly, Hannity, et al), spewing out ignorant horse manure, while so few liberals are this way. Liberals just don't want to wallow in this crap so they stay as far away to avoid getting stinky.

Liberals certainly have a lot more class and actually think out a rational answer than conservatives do, at least stereotypically. (There are a few, very few, liberals who are not so rational, but these numbers are so minuscule in comparison with those on the Right.)

What the hell is Air America...I am with the Duke on this one, this is almost as funny as Clinton saying "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

Liberals with more class, that should be the joke of the day.

 

[cableguy]

air america, yes... liberal radio that must steal from children to have operating money... air america, unable to pay for itself through ads, because NOBODY LISTENS!!!

as for the class issue, was it conservatives who covered themselves in shit while protesting the republican convention last year?? seems to me libs LIKE being covered in shit... it does more uniformly match what comes out of their mouths...

iceberg, what was irrational about that post?? seems to me it is pretty straightforward and understandable, and most of all, true...

 

[Iceberg]

Here we go. Climate change is likely, at least in part, to blame for the increase in hurricanes. Check these out:

"The evidence linking hurricanes and climate change":

http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/oct/policy/pt_curry.html

"Hurricanes: Are They Changing and Are We Adequately Prepared for the Future?":

http://www.ametsoc.org/atmospolicy/EnvironmentalScienceSeminarSeries.html

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

From your link: "Recent scientific research suggests that the duration and intensity of hurricanes worldwide has increased dramatically over the last 30-50 years."

I noticed that it didn't include the fact that there have been less cat 4 and 5 hurricanes in the last 50 years than there were in the previous 50 years. Wonder why they would leave that out? hmmm

 

[Iceberg]

Duke, that is incorrect. The following graph will show that the number of storms Category 3 and above have increased from 1905-1955 to 1955-present:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gifs/atlhist_hires.gif

What is interesting about the graph is that it matches very well with the temperature profile seen here:

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif

where the small valley in hurricane numbers in the mid-60s correlates with the cooler global and hemispheric temperatures, while a small peak occurs on both graphs in the 1940s and a larger (unfinished) peak occurs on both graphs up to and including the present.

You also have to remember that the oceans have some lag, since the molecular structure of water is far more dense. It takes longer for temperature increases to occur in liquids than in gases, therefore, the heat that drives hurricanes builds up more slowly in the water than in the atmosphere.

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

So i do a quick google search to prove you wrong, and i'm fuck'n amazed at the differences in information on both sides. Ranging from we're all gonna die from a hurricane all the way to there's no such thing. <--joke ... anyways through this search i discovered http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2004 capatalism magazine!! Look at the questions on the right side of the page and click one of choice. Interesting.

 

[mindido]

Just as an interesting aside. Has anyone elso noticed the new ads from BP (British Petroleum) seeming to recognize the global warming issue and promising to lead the pack in doing something about it?

Interesting.

 

[Iceberg]

From Capitalism Magazine:

Summary: Most media reports ignore the evidence for cooling and focus instead on records from land stations, which indicate a 1°F increase in surface temperatures during the 20th century. What they fail to report is that this increase was measured mostly in and around urban centers, and therefore indicates urban--not global--warming.

Duke, this refuted in the following thread of RealClimate:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=43

 

[cableguy]

mindido, pandering to an increasingly gullible public in no way is an admission of anything... i have seen the commercials as well, and they disgust me... what has happened here is that a lie has been told so many times that those among us with weak constitutions and lesser abilities of reasoning have started to believe it... this is cause for sadness, not celebration..

duke, you should know better... the earth is warming up at a tremendous rate!!! by the end of the year, surface temperatures will exceed 120 degrees on average!!! the oceans will boil by next autumn, and IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT for not believing!!! i know this because SOMEONE WHO IS A SCIENTIST SAID IT!!!