War In Iraq/Terrorists

[nigfacedjenkins]

Ugh, yeah, I remember that. But which is worse? Being caught for lying about a hummer (something we all have, or will, lie about) and costing the American public over $50 million? Or, Bush's lies which have cost over 3,000 lives, >25,000 wounded and over a trillion dollars (so far)?

I think there is no question as to the answer.

Bush's "lies" also liberated a country and imprisoned a dictator.

 

[mindido]

I finally found a bit of time to read something other than my normal research and thought that it would be worthwhile to recommend this book to those around here that have an interest. The book is, "Imperial Hubris: Why the West Is Losing the War on Terror" and was originally attributed to "Anonymous", but we now know that it was actually written by Michael Scheuer.

Scheuer was an analyst for the CIA for twenty + years and head of their Bin Laden unit for a good portion of that. His job was to basically study Bin Laden, thus he probably knows as much about the guy as anyone. His take is that Bin Laden is now probably the most admired and influential man in the Middle East and the Muslim world. Why? The reasons are too numerous to go into here (read the book) but, in a nutshell, he is viewed by your average Muslim as sort of a Christ-like character (my take).

Scheur's basic premise is that until our leadership (and the American people) actually recognize who, and what, we are fighting; we're doomed to failure. Remember what Sun Tsu said over 2,000 years ago, "Know your enemy". Well, it is apparent to me (and many others) that this administration doesn't have a clue and is leading us right over a cliff.

I found a brief excerpt:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1977111

And a few reviews:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Hubris
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A3989-2004Jun24?language=printer

The book is a bit dated (he finished it in May 2004) but is still very poignant. Its a bit difficult to understand in places but still worthwhile. In fact, I'd recommend reading chapter 8 first (his recommendations) and then going back to the beginning. Things will probably make more sense that way.

 

[OFFicerJACK]

Michael Scheuer may be the second most admired and influential man...

Do you suppose that's what he was going for?

 

[mindido]

Michael Scheuer may be the second most admired and influential man...

Do you suppose that's what he was going for?

Ugh, no. I guess that would probably be Zawahari (Bin Laden's second in command) but I really don't know. If you would only READ Chapter 8 you would find that statement to be totally absurd.

 

[mindido]

I guess I don't find this all that surprising as I remember what happened to Viet Nam vets, but this really has me burning. A kid enlists, gets a signing bonus, goes to Iraq and gets blown up three months short of his end date. Now, the VA wants a portion of the money back because he didn't "live" up to his agreement.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1928454/posts

There have been so many of these types of things lately that I'm not quite sure why this particular one has pissed me off so much.

For those of you so supportive of this criminal administration, I hope your happy. This was all predictive.

 

[Master Kiss]

basicly they want ppl to stop going into the east and messing with their countries, notice the usa trys to have its hand in every country??

 

[mindido]

basicly they want ppl to stop going into the east and messing with their countries, notice the usa trys to have its hand in every country??

?????????

 

[mindido]

I don't know if anyone else bothered to watch the PBS Frontline entitled "Bush's War", but if you didn't, you really should. It was excellent. Its about four and a half hours long but, it you really want to know how we got into this mess, you really need to watch it. You can watch it online here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/

They spent a lot of time putting this together and interviewed virtually all of the major players (except a few like Rumsfeld who wouldn't talk to them). If you want a better understanding of Iraq, watch this.

 

[Kaneinite]

This is funny...I was just listening to the Savage Nation on my way home tonight. I used to listen to talk radio all the time. I hadn't in awhile but turned it on and Michael Scheuer was on the show promoting his book. Seems like everything he said was believable. He WAS in the CIA for 20+ years...I don't know...he's kinda credible...lol

Really interesting stuff, though. Makes me want to pick up his book, "Marching Towards Hell: America and Islam After Iraq"

Yeah!

 

[adam_kristen]

they should stop pussy footing around and just nuke the fuckers!

 

[swede68]

they should stop pussy footing around and just nuke the fuckers!

You are one unbelievably ignorant little kid, my friend!

 

[adam_kristen]

You are one unbelievably ignorant little kid, my friend!

Bit harsh mate. Just my view on things. Ignorant would indicate little knowledge of a subject, such as the average US citizen knowing nothing of the world outside the US borders. (Please note I state "average", not all)

The war in Iraq can only come to a conclusion by 1 of 3 ways. The US withdraws, annihilates the Middle East or (my favourite) hand George Bush over to Al-Qaeda as a piece offering.

To even contemplate the possibility of "wining" the war by the current means employed is on the verge of blatant stupidity.

The US made a huge error in "going to war". Who's the enemy? The 7 year old with an AK-47?

You would think the mighty US of A could track down a little old man on a donkey on the sly and take him out. But noooooo, they had to invade a country (whilst falsely advising its own citizens of the reason why) and drag a dozen or so other countries into the mix.

What has it accomplished? NOTHING. He is still at large even though he is the most wanted man in the world and is being chased by the world’s only super power. Is he hiding with Iraq's WMD's? Maybe if he was black and stole a car the US government could fine him.

There is little doubt this "war" will continue for decades unless the US pull out. Then they will be the laughing stock of the entire Arab world.

By the way swede68, almighty respected member, thanks for the little kid remark. You American by any chance?

 

[swede68]

Bit harsh mate. Just my view on things. Ignorant would indicate little knowledge of a subject, such as the average US citizen knowing nothing of the world outside the US borders. (Please note I state "average", not all)

The war in Iraq can only come to a conclusion by 1 of 3 ways. The US withdraws, annihilates the Middle East or (my favourite) hand George Bush over to Al-Qaeda as a piece offering.

To even contemplate the possibility of "wining" the war by the current means employed is on the verge of blatant stupidity.

The US made a huge error in "going to war". Who's the enemy? The 7 year old with an AK-47?

You would think the mighty US of A could track down a little old man on a donkey on the sly and take him out. But noooooo, they had to invade a country (whilst falsely advising its own citizens of the reason why) and drag a dozen or so other countries into the mix.

What has it accomplished? NOTHING. He is still at large even though he is the most wanted man in the world and is being chased by the world’s only super power. Is he hiding with Iraq's WMD's? Maybe if he was black and stole a car the US government could fine him.

There is little doubt this "war" will continue for decades unless the US pull out. Then they will be the laughing stock of the entire Arab world.

By the way swede68, almighty respected member, thanks for the little kid remark. You American by any chance?

Sorry Adam, didn't mean to criticize you so harshly. Just sounded like such an uneducated response. I do live in the U.S. but grew up in Europe and lived in the Middle East for a while.

I do agree with you, and believe me, I am the first one to criticize this "regime/Police State" (Look for a microchip in our necks withing the next 5 years! For our safety of course!) and their selfish policies.

I remember waking up on 9/11 and dealing with people in this country who were telling me we should nuke Saudi Arabia! Only when I had to explain to them that S.A. is the U.S. largest ally in the Mid-East did they shut up!

What they need to do is pull out their air-bases and McDonalds that are right next to the holiest of holy - Mecca - and then take a long look at why muslims do not hate Americans any more! And don't even get me started on Israel!

 

[adam_kristen]

Sorry Adam, didn't mean to criticize you so harshly. Just sounded like such an uneducated response. I do live in the U.S. but grew up in Europe and lived in the Middle East for a while.

I do agree with you, and believe me, I am the first one to criticize this "regime/Police State" (Look for a microchip in our necks withing the next 5 years! For our safety of course!) and their selfish policies.

I remember waking up on 9/11 and dealing with people in this country who were telling me we should nuke Saudi Arabia! Only when I had to explain to them that S.A. is the U.S. largest ally in the Mid-East did they shut up!

What they need to do is pull out their air-bases and McDonalds that are right next to the holiest of holy - Mecca - and then take a long look at why muslims do not hate Americans any more! And don't even get me started on Israel!

No worries mate. You have hit the nail on the head mate! """ I remember waking up on 9/11 and dealing with people in this country who were telling me we should nuke Saudi Arabia! """

This shows the intelligence level of the average American. (Again, average, not all)

Only in a country which has numerous school shootings and suggests the best way to solve it is to provide students with a license to carry a loaded weapon, concealed, on campus can you get that sort of stupid response.

Mind you, your comment regarding Mecca shows another problem. War keeps happening due to religious debates. If we all became atheists the world would be a happier place.

LONG LIVE SANTA CLAUSE!!!!!

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

There is no war, religion is a scapegoat, we're in the middle east for oil just like Russia tried till we funded Bin and everyone else to run them out. And Stalin killed more people than anyone who ever lived and he was an atheist. The world can't be a happier place until King Kong gets a lawnmower.

 

[mindido]

Kane,

This is funny...I was just listening to the Savage Nation on my way home tonight. I used to listen to talk radio all the time. I hadn't in awhile but turned it on and Michael Scheuer was on the show promoting his book. Seems like everything he said was believable. He WAS in the CIA for 20+ years...I don't know...he's kinda credible...lol

Really interesting stuff, though. Makes me want to pick up his book, "Marching Towards Hell: America and Islam After Iraq"

Scheuer was one of the people interviewed in the Frontline article. I'll have to pick up his new book as his first one (mentioned in post 283) was very good. Its too bad this administration won't listen to him as he seems to have a pretty good idea of whats happening with the people in the Middle East.

And Adam,

I hope you understand Swede's response (as well as mine) to your initial post. There are a lot of ignorant people here in the US (as well as around this board) who do believe that option should be used. And I pretty much totally agree with the rest of your posts.

And everybody,

Go check the Frontline article out at the link above. This is no schlock article, they really did their homework (Frontline always does)!

 

[Drexciya]

Terrorists Hey? George Bush is the greatest terrorist known to mankind! Staged 9-11 to get himself a pretext to attack Afghanistan (for his new pipeline) and attack Iraq (get him some oil).

You people are being lied to!

 

[elmerfudd]

Terrorists Hey? George Bush is the greatest terrorist known to mankind! Staged 9-11 to get himself a pretext to attack Afghanistan (for his new pipeline) and attack Iraq (get him some oil).

You people are being lied to!

Ok, Rosie ! Lets not go all crazy and everything . Do I think the invasion of Iraq was right no ! Do I think the war in Afghanistan was right , Hell Yeah ! It should have happen when the USS.Cole was attacked in 2000. But even if I do not believe in some of the actions of this administration . I do have to give Bush credit on his
humanitarian aid in Africa. Bush's bad karma was Mother Nature bitch slapping his ass the Whole time he was President.

 

[semaaxeru]

I like how Adam said average Americans are ignorant. You know I love my country and wouldn't want to live any where else, but for Christ sake the ignorance here gives me a daily headache! Livng in their little bubbles and their arrogant stupidity. Any way why is it when ever any one wants to do something good they all go flock to Africa? You know the US might be the wealthiest nation, but for some reason instead of working to improve our own inner cities we opt to go to Africa and spend money there while our inner city children continue to struggle. I'm sure some of the rural farmers would like some of the billions we keep spending abroad. Can somebody give me alittle perspective on this. It's a quandry that always has me scratching my head. By the way keeping with the thread.. the war in Iraq is bunk, but we're there so we might as well do it right while we're there. Yes this is just like the mid seventites all over again. Also Bush is a jackass along with Cheney and daddy Bushy. Should we make a thread on how Bush economics has royaly effed up or economy now and a few years from now? O.k. I'm going to stop now, before I go on a mojor rant and have to start pulling out facts to support my rant.

 

[GrapJ]

Bit harsh mate. Just my view on things. Ignorant would indicate little knowledge of a subject, such as the average US citizen knowing nothing of the world outside the US borders. (Please note I state "average", not all)

The war in Iraq can only come to a conclusion by 1 of 3 ways. The US withdraws, annihilates the Middle East or (my favourite) hand George Bush over to Al-Qaeda as a piece offering.

To even contemplate the possibility of "wining" the war by the current means employed is on the verge of blatant stupidity.

The US made a huge error in "going to war". Who's the enemy? The 7 year old with an AK-47?

You would think the mighty US of A could track down a little old man on a donkey on the sly and take him out. But noooooo, they had to invade a country (whilst falsely advising its own citizens of the reason why) and drag a dozen or so other countries into the mix.

What has it accomplished? NOTHING. He is still at large even though he is the most wanted man in the world and is being chased by the world’s only super power. Is he hiding with Iraq's WMD's? Maybe if he was black and stole a car the US government could fine him.

There is little doubt this "war" will continue for decades unless the US pull out. Then they will be the laughing stock of the entire Arab world.

By the way swede68, almighty respected member, thanks for the little kid remark. You American by any chance?

I know why this is happening but if i tell you guys i would be killed.
Why do i think i'm the only one who KNOWS how to stop this avalanche in war.
Is there anybody else who knows how to stop these wars?