Future of Politics

[Your_Ass]

Something me and cable can agree upon. There just isn't enough evidence to undeniably support the claim the global warming is happening, and that it will have an affect on our lives. Surely its something that requires more study, and something that we should be careful about until we're sure. But right now the current state of environmental hysteria regarding it is laughable.

 

[war|forever]

in closing, i am not saying the earth is not warming, i am not saying the earth is not cooling... i AM saying that i do not believe mankind has the ability to affect such things, and even if we do, scientific data is not sufficient for definitive conclusions...

Here's the problem I have with the "we, as humans, can't possibly affect something as huge as the planet."

The ocean, you know, that big blue liquidy thing that covers 2/3rds of the globe, now doesn't have a single cubic inch of untainted water. Humankind has gotten to literally every drop of the friggin' ocean. If we can affect something as large as the ocean, we can certainly have some sort of impact on the atmosphere.... even if that affect is just an accelerating of an already naturally occuring warming trend. I just don't accept that "the earth is too big" for us to pollute it.

 

[baatezu]

wow

wow,

If I don't check this site every day I end up having entire chapters of rants to read through. Anyway, Sensi - I don't have time to get into the histories and members of secret societies right now, but I'll get back to you on that. A quick note on global warming - It is true that there is little we can do to hurt 'Earth'. It's a huge chunk of rock hurling through space, on which we are tiny microbes. I don't care if we cover the entire surface in 10 feet of nuclear waste, it still is going to be here. But we won't. And that's the problem. All of this 'save the Earth' stuff is crap. It should be 'save the humans'. And fact of the matter is, everything we do effects our ecosystem. pollution, greenhouse gasses, global warming, etc. isn't going to kill ALL of us, but it will definitely make this world a crappier place to live (literally). Humans, as a species, are pretty resilient. As an organism, however, we are very delicate. There used to be a time when people could walk around outside without needing to cover themselves in zinc. And if we continue down the path we're on, we will still exist, but we will have to live with eating mutated meat, and breathing air out of tanks. I, for one, would rather that not happen. But hey, to each their own...

 

[cableguy]

war, much of the ocean, to my knowledge, remains unexplored... many scientists will tell you we know more about outer space than our own oceans... given this, how is it even remotely possible that every cubic inch has been tainted??? we can speculate about places we have never been, but until we have been there, or sent some sort of probe, we cannot speak definitively of them...


france?? ivory coast?? unilateral military action?? no un approval?? unprovoked attack?? anyone???

each and every last person who was spewing forth venom directed at the USA or President Bush in regards to iraq or afghanistan should be at least as outraged at the french... if no one will defend france for what they are doing, can someone PLEASE explain the double standard to me??? i would like to think there is more than hypocrasy and "no matter what, blame America and President Bush," but my hope is fading fast...

 

[Gonjawolverine]

france?? ivory coast?? unilateral military action?? no un approval?? unprovoked attack?? anyone???

each and every last person who was spewing forth venom directed at the USA or President Bush in regards to iraq or afghanistan should be at least as outraged at the french... if no one will defend france for what they are doing, can someone PLEASE explain the double standard to me??? i would like to think there is more than hypocrasy and "no matter what, blame America and President Bush," but my hope is fading fast...

The french? C'mon cableguy you should know that nobody gives a shit about the french. If you look at CNN.com , the site says the Ivory coast airforce(is there such a thing?) bombed some french peace keepers, so the french retaliated by destroying the newly formed airforce and opening fire on huge crowds of demonstrators(or looters and rapists, as the french say) from the safety of a helicopter. Besides the fucking Ivory Coast is a french colony, so who cares.

 

[Gatorman]

france?? ivory coast?? unilateral military action?? no un approval?? unprovoked attack?? anyone???

Cable, I am outraged!! :x What audacity!! And the bastards wouldn't even help us. Hope the bastards get their asses whipped!! :lol:

And hopefully, it'll take the focus off of Dubya...... :wink:

 

[Dexterdoe]

Re: wow

wow,

A quick note on global warming - It is true that there is little we can do to hurt 'Earth'. It's a huge chunk of rock hurling through space, on which we are tiny microbes. I don't care if we cover the entire surface in 10 feet of nuclear waste, it still is going to be here.

All of that is well put.
I remeber being intoxicated in the mountains of North Carolina years back. My buddy and I were on the side of a mountain on his back porch watching a night time summer storm. The wind and rain was awesome. I figured out that night that all of the trees on the planet are nothing more than mold. A faint green fuzz that covers our wet little planet. Years later I came to realize that humans are an infection, eating away at the mold. A canker of sorts. Eating away, feeding on the mold. Soon, (relatively) the humans will need more of this mold for consumption than is available, and we will choke ourselves off. Global warming is nothing but the stench from the rot that is the human race, devouring everything in our path.
It is really kind of neat, we are a bio-luminescent bacteria. All of the infected sites on the planet (cities) glow at night. Luminescent technically means light without heat, which means I used the word wrong in my analogy, but you get the point. Also, I said canker, like citrus canker, which I don't know if it eats away at an orange or not, but from what I see in the pictures, the canker site looks like a bacteria city to me.
My usual disclaimer of "I don't necessarily believe all of what I have said, I just enjoy the unique point of view" applies in full.

 

[Your_Ass]

someone's seen The Matrix one too many times

 

[utfan27]

someone's seen The Matrix one too many times

funny shit :lol:

Anyway, it's really simple. As I stated before, people can be divided into two groups: ones who blame America for everything, and ones who don't. I believe this country has done some really good things. We are not the root of all evil, as some would have you believe. But, maybe I'm just too much of an optimist.

 

[cableguy]

thanks, dex... the setup here is nearly too good to be true, and i cant resist, no matter how outrageous it sounds... feel free to punt this if you want, but in a way, i agree with your view of cities as some sort of "infection." i believe the urban mentality has "poisoned" the minds of far too many... oh, and thats where the VAST majority of democrat votes come from... odd, dont you think?? most pollution comes from "blue" areas...

hmmmmm...

 

[Gonjawolverine]

Re: wow

All of that is well put.
I remeber being intoxicated in the mountains of North Carolina years back. My buddy and I were on the side of a mountain on his back porch watching a night time summer storm. The wind and rain was awesome. I figured out that night that all of the trees on the planet are nothing more than mold. A faint green fuzz that covers our wet little planet. Years later I came to realize that humans are an infection, eating away at the mold. A canker of sorts. Eating away, feeding on the mold. Soon, (relatively) the humans will need more of this mold for consumption than is available, and we will choke ourselves off. Global warming is nothing but the stench from the rot that is the human race, devouring everything in our path.
It is really kind of neat, we are a bio-luminescent bacteria. All of the infected sites on the planet (cities) glow at night. Luminescent technically means light without heat, which means I used the word wrong in my analogy, but you get the point. Also, I said canker, like citrus canker, which I don't know if it eats away at an orange or not, but from what I see in the pictures, the canker site looks like a bacteria city to me.
My usual disclaimer of "I don't necessarily believe all of what I have said, I just enjoy the unique point of view" applies in full.

If you were to ask Professor Stephen Hawking if humans are viruses or parasites he would tell you in a robotic voice "Yes, because they feed off and depend on other lifeforms for survival." That is what a parsite does. So most of the creatures on this planet are in fact parasites.
I was reading a book by Stephen Hawking called 'Black Holes and Baby Universes, and other essays' and his theories on quantum physics and the begining and eventual end of the earth and of time itself is just fascinating. That guy is either a complete genius or a certified wack job. It really has me thinking, our time on this planet is so short, we really should make the most out of everyday we have. Nothing in this world is perfect, we just have to suck it up and move on. Yes, I have gone way off topic with this post, but damn. In the whole scope of things, politics and our superficial problems really don't even matter. So, if you want to look at it as the Earth being a speck of dust floating around amongst an infinate amount of other specks of dust throughout the universe and humans being a blood sucking parsite. You are partially right. Size really is relative. Didn't you see Men in Black? I shouldn't post so fucked up. What topic is this?
B.O.T.

 

[Dexterdoe]

thanks, dex... the setup here is nearly too good to be true, and i cant resist, no matter how outrageous it sounds... feel free to punt this if you want, but in a way, i agree with your view of cities as some sort of "infection." i believe the urban mentality has "poisoned" the minds of far too many... oh, and thats where the VAST majority of democrat votes come from... odd, dont you think?? most pollution comes from "blue" areas...

hmmmmm...

Nice We need action comic sound affects. Kaploww! Zowie!
But...You offer no facts that most of the polution per person comes from blue areas. Cities are just concentrated areas of infection. Remember the popular vote? That was a tad over half in the red column. We all fart and flush toilets. :wink: Also, hicks and hillbilies (reds) drive 12 mpg pickups 90 miles one way to the corner store (for bullets and beer). The bluebies walk.
I know, not all reds are hicks and hillbillies. And really, 'reds' is a name with a derogatory connotation in childish response to the derogatory connotations associated with 'liberals' or 'blue' or 'the left'. So please, it's all in good quick witted fun.
Also, to make a cheesy anology, you can call the butcher a killer all you want, but he doesn't eat all the meat.

Response to stuff in the 'Arafat dies' thread...

9-11 was a civilian target. USS Cole was a military target. Defenseless v/s well defended. I see the difference.

Wherethings get complicated is where the double standard begins. How can one country go after the enemy and those who harbor them, but another country can't? The citizens of a country harbor their military. Does that not make them a target? I would hope not, me being a citizen, but it seems logical. If I were the citizen of a small coutry who was being dominated by a larger, militarily superior counrty, why would I direct my meager attacks at their tough military exterior, or should I strike the soft bellied source? I think people need to understand this concept. It requires looking at things from a point of view that may be different than your own, but it is beneficial.

The US is a military super power. No one has a real chance head to head. If the US really pisses off a people, the US citizens will be a more logical target. Those who hate the US do not consider the citizens 'innocent'. Who the US (and others) calls terrorists have merely made the distinction beween innocent and defenseless. I, as an American citizen, am not innocent in some eyes. I am a target. If I am defenseless, I am the most likely target. It's fucked up.

The shrinking globe (globalization) is making us all a little cramped and grumpy. Our distinct cultures are in danger of becoming blended. This is proving to be a difficlt pill for some of us to swallow. I feel that understanding and dealing with this issue is important, and growing more so.

I think people do not see the whole picture when they look as 9-11 or the USS Cole as "what started all this." Those events are viewed as retaliation by those who perpetrated the acts. No one seems to talk about reasons why they feel this way. But we all want to know what went through Scott Petersons head when he killed his wife. To prevent murder, you might want to know why murders murder. Killing all murderers is a bit too in the 'pound of cure' camp for my tastes. I'd rather prevent all murders, even if it means driving a hybrid or riding a bike...

 

[oscaraustin]

I'd rather prevent all murders, even if it means driving a hybrid or riding a bike...

This will be veering off topic, but... murders, unnecessary deaths, deaths of children, preventable deaths, et cetera... without these deaths, the world would be in far more dire crisis than it is now, because of the even larger population. Similarly, while things like the holocaust, and wars created and continue to create deaths that are hard to swallow, death and preventable, or stupid death are necessary for the comfort of our race as a whole.

I do agree with the "humanity as a virus" concept, however, as a proud member of said virus i will continue to be the best virus i can be. Why? Because that is how our species has been designed, or at least redesigned, to live. I love nature, but i think there are more pressing humanitarian issues, especially in areas like the Middle East, Southeast Asia, and all over Africa. We need to make the world a level playing field before moving on to other all encompassing issues like the environment.
Or else, when they begin to grow in technology they will run through the gauntlet of problems we already have, and are going through.

 

[endymion]

Go away for a week or two, come back and all hell's breaking loose...

Firstly, global warning. Yes, it is a political issue. It will stop being as much of one when the US signs the Kyoto Protocol. If you don't believe in global warning, come spend some time in Australia with me. Droughts one day, floods the next. Literally. Not normal weather; temps and rainfall that are completely different to all previously recorded decades. (Your_Ass, if you want me to find a few pages of facts to back this up, just ask...) So, yeah, I'd consider the envirnment to be a big political issue. (But I'm not one of those people that whinges about the state of the environment, but still drives a car. If anyone is, I say shut the hell up. You just lost your right to an opinion. It's like complaining about gun-related crime, but still owning a pistol. Ridiculous.)

Second (for Cable's sanity). France and Ivory Coast. Ah, the delicious irony. Yeah, that's fucked up, but we all hate the French anyway. What are we supposed to say, "We hate you even more now?" And it's not like France is a superpower, we don't look to them to lead the world. Unlike the US. And as the Ivory Coast is a French Colony anyway, it's not like a major foreign invasion. It's more like the rest of the US attacking Hawaii.

Third. I was against Bush winning, but now he has. Oh well, I'm just glad Australia is an friend to the US. And that we don't have any oil.

 

[Your_Ass]

Haha, endymion, Nah I don't need pages of facts, I agree that global warming is a political issue and there is evidence to support it being a major problem. But, as I said in the environment thread, there is also some evidence that it isn't our fault, or that it isn't that big of a deal, so no need to argue, science should come to some sort of conclussion soon enough.

 

[cableguy]

endy, though we disagree on many things politically, you are, i believe, my favorite aussie...

thank you for re-electing PM Howard to a fourth term... i am glad to hear the civil unrest regarding policy against terrorism isnt as widespread as i had been led to believe... you are in better shape, economically and otherwise, with the labor party shrinking the way our democrat party is...

our farmers here in the States would love it if we had droughts that lasted but a day... what defines normal is life experience... life experience can consist of things read, seen, or lived through... ergo, the weather may be abnormal, but it may only be because it is different from what you are used to, both in personal experience and historical record...

the historical record shows that our yellowstone national park is mostly a huge volcano that "normally" explodes, killing most life on the planet, every however many million or billion years... i can say with certainty that no one living when that sucker blows will view it as a "normal" event... geological record shows it to be so, yet not once in the history of humans has it happened, so the historical record is void of this event... regardless of the data, it will be rather difficult to sell many people on global warming, myself included... if one rejects the premise of global warming, the kyoto accord becomes an immense weight on the developed world with no benefit to offer.. i reject the premise, and for the sake of my nations economy, and that of the world, i hope my nations leaders continue to reject it as well...

in other news, fallujah is mostly taken care of, mosul is next, and the bad guys continue to die by the hundreds... latest estimates put the number of dead bad guys around 1600 in fallujah over this latest assault... (earlier estimates were 600 by the US, and 1000 by the iraqi govt) apparently, according to news outlets, they are also surrendering in droves... wounded are not made mention of... recruitment may be up, but one wonders if it can keep pace with casualties and surrenders... this member believes not...

 

[oscaraustin]

...people that whines about the state of the environment, but still drives a car. If anyone is, I say shut the hell up. You just lost your right to an opinion. It's like complaining about gun-related crime, but still owning a pistol. Ridiculous.)

Actually, owning a pistol and being against gun crimes are completely unrelated, and therefore not ridiculous to have and do both. Owning a pistol does not mean you go out and rob, murder, maim, or threaten people. Sometimes it just means you like guns... " :shock: You mean there are actually people who like guns out there, oscar!?!", "Yes, Billy, i do!" Gun enthusiasts collect guns, display guns, and shoot guns on ranges at targets for fun. To them it is a hobby/sport like darts, futbol, or nascar.... like darts they are potentially lethal weapons, but you don't see people running around trying to take darts off the street. Just like nascar many people just don't fucking understand it. ( i for one really don't get the fascination with cars flying around a track..... though i do like to drive fast, just not in circles.)

But I do like all things guns, which also fit well into family traditions. My grandfather and his father were army vets and at our cabins in No. Michigan we have loads of all types of amazing weaponry. We occasionally shoot into the side of a hill, and oddly none of us are even hunters, let alone gun crime advocates.

People being stupid with a gun... Being stupid in general.... is the problem, not guns or whatever other instrument.


On Iraq/ Fallujah. I hate calling wars by bodycounts... bodycounts, like treaties mean absolutely nothing to the actual outcome of the war. However, it is hard to overlook that overall the coalition has lost 1,584 soldiers TOTAL in the entire war (last number i heard earlier today), and in Fallujah alone the insurgents have lost 1,600. i hate talking deaths as numbers, each is tragic and hard to take in... 4 of thost 1584 are lifelong friends of mine. At least they have died for a noble cause... whereas i will rot away in life from the disease that kept me out of the military.

In brighter news (really old news, but i'm sure others have not seen this). According to the iraq Centre for Human Rights, while Hussein was in power on average 70-125 civilians died at the hands of their own government per day. From the onset of this war through March of 2004, the number of Iraqi civilains dead by war relateded violence was down to 32 per day on average. That info comes from Mr. Steven Cass who has a doctorate in Iraqi studies and focuses almost exclusively his efforts on Iraq. It will only be acceptable after that number is down to zero, but that will require the elimination of the remaining insurgent threat.

 

[Gatorman]

I've got a gun so that I can shoot any motherfucker that wants to hurt my family or me. What's wrong with that? 8)

 

[cableguy]

not a thing, gator... not a thing is wrong with that...

oscar, i dont know if i have made that argument against using body counts or not, but i completely agree with you... sadly, we DO have a body count, and there are those who bring it up at any point they can... Ameican soldiers... i put that item out there so those same people can see what the balance looks like... the other side of the scale, if you will... the newest number of American dead in the battle for fallujah that i have seen is 38... thirty-eight brave souls fighting for the freedom of others... thirty-eight compared to 1600.... the math only works one way in this terrible equation... may they rest in peace...

on another note, with todays date being november 16, the total iraqi civillian casualty count with your figure of 32 per day is 19,456... fascinating, as this is less than 20% of the claimed 100,000+ by the same folks who wish for more dead coalition troops... (yes, i made a connection there, and i have no plans to rescind it) with a gap of more than 80,000, there are a few scenarios that might explain the difference...

- crappy reporting
- crappy sources
- reporting based on assumption and/or propaganda
- many of the alleged civillian dead werent civillians after all
- mr cass could be deranged
- reporting of numbers based on hopes, rather than facts, much like cbs and the new york times

one wonders if the likely grossly over-reported civillian "death toll" would have eventually exceeded the population of the country... stranger things have happened...

lastly, i too, am a gun owner... i have a variety that includes rifles, shotguns, and handguns... i like guns, and i like shooting... i have killed animals... i will NEVER consider using a gun in a criminal manner... when not in use, my guns are safely stored where it would be highly improbable that anyone could access them... i cast my vote proudly in the personal responsibility column... bans are not the answer, education is...

 

[baatezu]

Check this out

Check this out -

http://www.7onyourside.com/Global/story.asp?S=2558518&nav=7CPDT4VX

From Fox, noless.

There is obviously a problem with our voting system. I just hope more Diebold computers, and electronic voting machines are checked. And not because of the outcome, but because we (as citizens of a democracy [I know, I know, 'Republic']) should be able to trust our voting system.