Future of Politics

[moxdevil]

not following the most recent train of thought on this thread but, in line with the threads title- i cannot stand the increasing 'americanisation' of british politics, this may be happening elsewhere but it is increasingly apparent now. Of course we had to put up with thatcher's aping of reagan's economic policies, and one could say that new labour and its style of expression is modelled on clinton's, but god help us (figure of speech only) if we copy every bloody detail of the american's candy floss politics. Bring back the dusty no charisma, don't want to be on tv politicians. Get rid of the pathetic trend of having the freshest faces standing around the leader on tv and other blatant cynical approaches. Aggghhh next we'll have 'independent' bodies taking people off the voting register and a film star politician- anyone up for sean connery for prime minister? America might tolerate having puppet leaders, who represent charisma and other sperfluous characteristics but our leaders used to actually have more than this, not everything was instigated by whitehall. in the near future our leader is going to be only significant in what he/she represents in his/her physical and background demeanour and not in what he/she actually says and thinks. we'll end up with a genuine moron like bush.

 

[Iceberg]

:vomit:

:chainsaw:

Ahhh. Much better! :razz:

 

[moxdevil]

What is it they continually say at Fox 'Fair and balanced' hahaha yeah right. It's like the saying 'if you say it enough times, eventually you'll believe your own bullshit'

 

[mindido]

Hey mox,

I take it you've noticed how they say it over and over and over and over. And all the time. They never let up. It's also the old saying, "If you can't dazzle em with your brilliance then baffle em with bullshit." I just can't believe they are still on the air and that people actually watch. But then, brainwashing has been demonstrated to be a useful tool.

 

[Iceberg]

A great book to read on this is Joe Conason's Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How it Distorts the Truth. Not to mention Al Franken's two books.

 

[moxdevil]

Iceberg, i've been reading the Conason book the last few days. makes interesting reading especially the no 'liberal media bias' argument. still haven't we always known that the media was right-wing. You only have to look at some of the warped views of the guests on such programmes as the linda vester one. What has surprised me though is that they haven't yet draped the hosts in the stars and stripes, whilst having an hourly prayer time and a homage to our beloved leader. Won't be long till we get such an overtly politically biased tv network here in England.

Mindido, its like having the propaganda screens from 1984 actually existing. 'Bush cares about you and your family, he's just a big bear' cuddly cuddly cuddly.

 

[cableguy]

new york times, washington post, boston globe, time magazine, newsweek magazine, cbs... yep... definitely accurate, unbiased, and scandal-free....

 

[mindido]

Ice and Mox,

Over the weekend, I was watching something (I believe it was 60 Minutes) and they had an interesting interview with a guy named Harry Frankfurt. He's an emeritus prof. from Princeton who just wrote a book called "On Bullshit". I haven't read it yet but its about all of the deceit that all of us (especially in the modern countries) have to endure on a daily basis. I hadn't thought about it until the interview but, when you think about it, we do see tons of it, even when we don't recognize it. You may want to pick that up.

On to Cableguys point.

You may also want to keep an eye on C-Span as they are running a talk by Bill Moyers in Missouri from last weekend. He's describing how journalism is now almost a dead art because of the centralization of ownership in the media. Even at PBS (the channel I probably watch the most). He lays out how, because all of these major media sources are owned by a few corporations, the truth of something is almost impossible to get out if it conflicts with the corporation (even the Corporation for Public Broadcasting). His talk is really an eye opener.

 

[Iceberg]

 

[Iceberg]

Regarding the bullshit argument the GOP makes about the "Culture of Life":

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0529-27.htm

And I leave you with a quote from Bush:

ABSURD BUSH QUOTE: "There is something healthy about people campaigning, saying, this is what I'm for. Palestinian President Abbas ran on a peace platform. You know, maybe somebody will run on a war platform -- you know, vote for me, I promise violence. I don't think they're going to get elected, because I think Palestinian moms want their children to grow up in peace just like American moms want their children to grow up in peace. As a matter of fact, I think the people that campaign for peace will win."

-George W Bush. Himself excluded, of course... White House, 5/26/05

 

[Ankit Pande]

Bush funding

Already posted this in the images/visuals thread in Links and games ..... but i think it fits here better.

Bush has came up with a new formula to fund his Iraq war. His new motto is, "Forget TV channels; fund your military and take your company to the skies."

(click on the pic)

 

[cableguy]

berg, President Bush has always spoken of peace... though i dont like to compare him to President Reagan, in this case, i will... President Reagan believed in the proven notion of "peace through strength" which, incidentally, is the ships motto of the USS Ronald Reagan... heres how it works...

free people wish to remain that way, because peacetime is more prosporous than wartime... a free people who are threatened arent actually free... if the US has a military large enough to crush any threat to its sovereignty, and protect the sovereignty of those nations who might be unable to protect themselves, then peace will reign... to secure peace is to prepare for war--and be willing to fight and WIN any war that does invite its unwelcome self to the doorstep of a free nation...

 

[Iceberg]

berg, President Bush has always spoken of peace...

Ummm, I seem to remember Bush saying he was a "War President." That's hardly advancing the cause of peace, don't you think?

a free people who are threatened arent actually free...

So then America is not actually a free country. Many people who dissent (and dissented) are (and were) being badgered by the government under the Patriot Act for not being in agreement with the Bush Administration. They were having their phones tapped, even though there was no evidence they were attempting to commit or actually in the process of committing a crime. They were being arrested (like those who PEACEFULLY protested the RNC Convention in NYC) simply for having a differing view than the government.

Maybe some nation should invade the US and free those Americans who are having their constitutional rights violated by an iron-fisted administration. (ETA: I'm certainly not advocating the invasion of the US. It is just a reasonable comparison of the hypocrisy of those who believe the war in Iraq was about liberation.)

 

[Iceberg]

So much for the Republicans' "Culture of Life." They want to prohibit the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes, which would have enhanced the quality of life of a person with cancer or another disease.

It is blatant hypocrisy that these same scumbags would keep Terri Shiavo alive, yet would increase the pain of those with such a terminal illness. It shows their utter lack of compassion and insensitivity for those in need.

http://us.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/06/scotus.medical.marijuana/index.html

The term "compassionate conservative" is easily the biggest oxymoron ever. Those who use the term to describe themselves are full of crap.

They refuse to allow governmental interference in certain people's lives, yet they are as totalitarian a dictatorship as any by allowing this ruling to stand. So much for the "freedoms" of which they claim to protect!

 

[Iceberg]

FBI 'missed chances to stop 9/11'

That's because the FBI was too busy investigating Iraq after Bush's demands they do so, rather than identifying and tracking Al'Qaeda members inside the US.

By focusing on Iraq, even one iota, Al'Qaeda was able to blindside US intelligence with the attacks on 9-11. Bush had such an irrational and unhealthy obsession with Saddam that it hurt the nation he was supposed to protect as Commander in Chief.

I wonder if Bush even uttered Osama bin Laden's name prior to 9-11.

 

[cableguy]

wartime President is different than war President...

innocent people pestered by the patriot act??? name them... also, please provide any information you can to prove those same folks wouldnt have been pestered by law enforcement types anyways?? for the record, i am against some aspects of said act, but the President is correct when he says its effectiveness cant be argued with...

since when do peaceful protests involve shoving, smearing ones self with shit, and indecent exposure?? any and all of these offenses were catalogued in nyc during the convention, and there should have been far more arrests than they were... visit http://www.protestwarrior.com for a better look INSIDE those same "peaceful" protests than you have likely ever had... remember, if you werent there to witness those arrests, you dont know what actually happened...

you have gone too far with the pot thing, and for the wrong reasons... i sincerely doubt its medicinal validity, but i really dont care anout it, as i am one who believes it should be legalized and treated like alcohol... in any case, this case wasnt about pot, medicine, illness, compassion, or any combination of these things, it was about redefinint interstate commerce... because of this ruling, interstate commerce is now defined to include intRAstate commerce... this should have a truly chilling effect on people, but likely wont, as most folks either dont care, or are too dim to see the consequences of this action... this decision opens the door for increased federal regulation, in areas that it legally COULD NOT exist before...

here is a krauthammer piece taken from the houston chronicle website that crystalizes the ACTUAL issue in this case, and, much to your dismay, iceberg, shows justices thomas and scalia disagreeing... so much for the theory of judicial conspiracy on the right... http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/3220554

compassionate liberal is actually more oxy-moronic than compassionate conservative, but to an entire party of "gimmee" oriented folks, this is difficult to explain... it is a people helped vs. gifts given thing...

lastly, the headline, as is so often the case in overtly biased media outlets, of which the bbc certainly is, is just a bit lacking in crucial information... the sub-head read as follows: "The FBI missed several opportunities to uncover and possibly prevent the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US, a high-level report has found. " iceberg, have you lost your mind?? the fbi has domestic jurisdiction, not foreign... IF the fbi was looking into anything related to iraq, it was doing so on American soil... i find even this claim to be unlikely, as the fbi is a criminal investigative organization, not a foreign intel gathering one... i believe you are trying to blame the fbi for something the cia was doing....

i wonder if the attacks on 9/11/2001 would have happened if President Clinton had authorized the capture of bin laden instead of abusing his staff, leaving dna stains on interns, and worrying about his legacy...

 

[Iceberg]

Corporate Traitors

Not much else to say about it, but that a huge injustice is occurring.

 

[Iceberg]

(Mods, sorry to add a new post here, but it has nothing to do with the previous one.)

wartime President is different than war President...

Bush was not "elected" while the nation was at war, so he is a war President. He started the war in Iraq, not Clinton.

That ProtestWarrior site is made by people screwed up in the head. They talk about freedom, yet would like none other than to strip those freedoms away from those who disagree with them. These people are the biggest scum on this planet.

Krauthammer is far from impartial. His articles are the typical Neo-Con crap that is played out in newspapers and media throughout the continent.

lastly, the headline, as is so often the case in overtly biased media outlets, of which the bbc certainly is, is just a bit lacking in crucial information... the sub-head read as follows: "The FBI missed several opportunities to uncover and possibly prevent the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US, a high-level report has found. " iceberg, have you lost your mind?? the fbi has domestic jurisdiction, not foreign... IF the fbi was looking into anything related to iraq, it was doing so on American soil... i find even this claim to be unlikely, as the fbi is a criminal investigative organization, not a foreign intel gathering one... i believe you are trying to blame the fbi for something the cia was doing....

READ RICHARD CLARKE'S BOOK AGAINST ALL ENEMIES!!! You will find out this stuff in there. If you would actually read something, you may actually find something out. Without reading, one knows nothing.

i wonder if the attacks on 9/11/2001 would have happened if President Clinton had authorized the capture of bin laden instead of abusing his staff, leaving dna stains on interns, and worrying about his legacy...

CLINTON DID MORE ON TERROR THAN REAGAN, BUSH I, AND BUSH II!!! READ CLARKE'S BOOK, DAMN IT!!!

Bush ignored bin Laden until it was too late, then had Attention Deficit Disorder and went into Iraq instead of hunting Osama down to the end. Dubya even said "Oh, I'm not worried about bin Laden" AFTER 9-11.

 

[Ankit Pande]

The terminator calls for re-elections in California ... read this article ...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/14/schwarzenegger/index.html

 

[cableguy]

ankit, that is a special election for certain ballot initiatives, NOT for political offices...

berg, aside from rolling over and presenting a gaping asshole and asking, no, demanding, that something large be shoved in it, former President Clinton did nothing that hurt terrorism... NOTHING... an official policy of appeasement and lobbing a few cruise missiles when one is caught fucking an intern leads to international disrespect and the view that America is too weak to ACT on anything... embassies in africa were bombed, the wtc was bombed, lets not forget the USS Cole... somalia... hmmm... what did he do??? he cut and ran, he apologized for being American... what was the result?? more attacks, more death, and more apeasement...

an official policy of giving in, of NOT pursuing those responsible, of letting bygones be bygones while inviting further attacks against American servicemembers and civillians... only an ignorant coward would advocate appeasement as policy.. world war 2 happened BECAUSE of appeasement... appeasement is simply another word for encouragement..

regarding clarke...

"There was no plan on al Qaida that was passed from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration."

The Bush administration was briefed on the existing plans and strategy regarding Afghanistan, among other things, that the Clinton administration had in place.

The Bush administration decided to "increase CIA resources, for example, for covert action, five-fold, to go after al Qaida."

Once the administration was fully in place, in March or April - because of the election debacle - the new administration "then changed the strategy from one of rollback with al Qaida over the course [of] five years, which it had been, to a new strategy that called for the rapid elimination of al Qaida."

--Richard Clarke, 2002

your beloved clarke, who was one of President Clintons holdovers, is a bit sketchy... he removed references to terrorism in at least two Clinton speeches, blocked plans to extradite bin laden from sudan AND afghanistan, yet was the ONLY member of the Clinton cabinet, the President himself included, that wanted to to anything retaliatory about the bombing of the USS Cole... a partisan hack, self contradictory, and yet another lesson on why every last appointee of President Clinton should have been broomed on day one... your guy was praising President Bush as recently as late 2002...

regarding protestwarrior, you should read a bit yourself... freedom of speech is what they are all about... for EVERYONE... a claim i feel you cannot make.. there are specific guidelines to NOT interfere with this Constitutional right... in fact, the LAST thing those folks would want to do is shut up the braying jackasses... they help the cause every time they show up to protest anything...