National Dialogue on Terrorism

[Cman]

LOL, I thought this was pretty funny. Its an excerpt from Al Franken's Book, "Lies". I thought it was funny because its the exact conversation that I always end up in when trying to talk sense into Americans :mrgreen:

1: Why do they hate us?
2: They hate us because they're evil.

1: That's it huh? Thats the entire story?
2: Yes. They're evil. And they hate us because of our freedoms.

1: I know they're evil. I was just thinking that maybe if we understood what specifically seemed to trigger the-
2: Why are you apologizing for the terrorists?

1: I'm not. They're evil. You have no quarrel there. Its just that maybe if we understoo-
2: Why are you on the terrorists side?

1: I'm not! I hate terrorists. I was just saying we might be able to prevent the next-
2: Three thousand Americans dead. How can you defend Al Qaeda?

1: Believe me, I was not defending them. What they did was horrific and inexcusable. They're evil. I was just-
2: Then why are you apologizing for them?

1: I'm not. I'm trying to say that maybe there are lessons we can-
2:Why do you hate America?!

On a personal note, I love the part about 3000 Americans dead. Especially since the US has killed many times more than that since in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Don't bother flaming me. You know its right.

 

[moxdevil]

I think it comes from the 'black and white' world that some Americans, namely the conservatives, have: They love America and if you don't express the same kind of patriotism then you must hate America. The same people have wrapped up certain values to that patriotism- therefore democracy, liberty, morality, etc are all intrinsically tied to their patriotism- anybody not expressing such love for America hates America, hates democracy, hates liberty, has no morality etc... it's a simple world of clear dichotomies to the conservative. It shows in the language they use- love and hate, good and evil, etc... no fucking wonder they are all subscibers to the 'good book'.

 

[Cman]

We have sort of a similar thing here in Canada, with patriotism and such, only replace the word "war" with "hockey" and the losing of life with losing hockey games.

BTW, I'm completely serious. We're already talking about how we are going to win the Gold medal at the upcoming olympics and are already beginning to choose our team. We put about as much effort into selecting our hockey team as you do the war in Iraq.

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

Know what the really shitty thing about war is? This isn't the last. Nor is the next or the one after that. Know what's even shittier than that? Till we are extinct people will always die from war. It will NEVER stop. That's why 3000 dead innocent americans are "exceptionally" shitty. <--dont bother flaming me you know i'm right. mox you are at war with yourself. Somehow every conversation you involve yourself in comes down to god or the lack of. Every other post is a link proving there is no such thing. A psychologist would tell you to ask yourself why.

 

[moxdevil]

mox you are at war with yourself. Somehow every conversation you involve yourself in comes down to god or the lack of. Every other post is a link proving there is no such thing. A psychologist would tell you to ask yourself why.

difficult to avoid god when the conservatives in America invoke him all the fucking time. Or when they choose to discriminate whether somebody is fit for public office on the basis of their religious beliefs. Which semantic field does the term 'evil' come under? why is it 50 years ago we had simply the 'axis powers' but now we have the 'axis of evil' ? Also the belief in a monotheistic religion reinforces a dichotomous interpretation of the world- you know its true, i know its true, every fucking half wit knows its true.

Duke, 'perhaps every other post' is because i find myself dealing with the minds of you and cable?

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

I guess when the day comes when we walk into Wal-Mart in December and there are no Christmas trees for sale because it no longer holds water to say the word holiday, then you have won. Who says individuals can't make change. :sad:

 

[Da' Legend]

1: Why do they hate us?
2: They hate us because they're evil.

1: That's it huh? Thats the entire story?
2: Yes. They're evil. And they hate us because of our freedoms.

1: I know they're evil. I was just thinking that maybe if we understood what specifically seemed to trigger the-
2: Why are you apologizing for the terrorists?

1: I'm not. They're evil. You have no quarrel there. Its just that maybe if we understoo-
2: Why are you on the terrorists side?

1: I'm not! I hate terrorists. I was just saying we might be able to prevent the next-
2: Three thousand Americans dead. How can you defend Al Qaeda?

1: Believe me, I was not defending them. What they did was horrific and inexcusable. They're evil. I was just-
2: Then why are you apologizing for them?

1: I'm not. I'm trying to say that maybe there are lessons we can-
2:Why do you hate America?!

Funny .... but that doesnot give up the perspective of every american

 

[Gibson]

Funny .... but that doesnot give up the perspective of every american

Duh. That's the point.

Nothing can show the perspective of every member of any group. Trying to do so creates stereotypes, with either hurtful or humourous results.

 

[Cman]

with either hurtful or humourous results.

mostly humourous

 

[cableguy]

mox, i stand as a shining example that religion is NOT a requisite part of conservatism... a mind that thinks, rather than feels is necessary, a firm grasp of perspective and logic is also required, as is a fundamental understanding of economics... oh, honesty helps a lot, too... religion is nowhere in the picture, BUT, if you have the above traits, you do end up with a certain set of values and morals... fundamentally, the difference between right and wrong...

personally, i view the "religion in government" bit with the same disdain i view the entire abortion debate with... i would be perfectly happy if BOTH sides simply let well enough alone... roy moore and those you call the "religious right" along with the aclu and similar types... the presence or absence of a cross, a star of david, a crescent, two stone tablets, or anything else is simply NOT harmful to ANYONE... the entire argument, on both sides, is stale and sad... also, for the record, please view the recent bitching by democrats about supreme court nominees to find YOUR people doing the same thing you are complaining about...

 

[Cman]

I don't think the point of the whole thing was anything to do with religion. It merely demonstrates the stupid answers given to potentially stupid questions. People who try to pretend they know what they're talking about.

 

[Gibson]

I don't think the point of the whole thing was anything to do with religion. It merely demonstrates the stupid answers given to potentially stupid questions. People who try to pretend they know what they're talking about.

That, plus an unhealthy amount of patriotism and the ridiculous "If you're not with us, you're against us" attitude.

 

[Bob_Box]

I guess when the day comes when we walk into Wal-Mart in December and there are no Christmas trees for sale because it no longer holds water to say the word holiday, then you have won. Who says individuals can't make change. :sad:

Christmas is about religion??? I thought is was about eating lots of turkey and getting presents and staying up all night with friends drinking playing trivia until we go line up at 5am for Boxing Day sale (my favorite day of the year)

 

[mindido]

People who try to pretend they know what they're talking about.

CMan,

Really like that part. Most appropriate.

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

CMan,

Really like that part. Most appropriate.

Likewise

 

[Texan]

Since the topic seems to be religion and Terrorism, this story seems suited for this discussion since it touches on both subjects.

Subject: Navy Seal

There are two things Navy Seals are always taught:
1. Keep your priorities in order.
2. Know when to act without hesitation.

A college professor, avowed atheist and active member
of the A.C.L.U. was teaching his college class. He
shocked several of his students when he flatly stated
that once and for all he was going to prove that there
was no God.

Addressing the ceiling he shouted: "GOD, if you are
real, then I want you to knock me off this platform.
I'll give you exactly 15 minutes!!!!!"

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin
drop. Ten minutes went by.

"I'm waiting God, if you're real, knock me off this
platform!!!"

Again after four minutes, the professor taunted God
saying, "Here I am, God-!! I'm still waiting!!!"


His count down got down to the last couple minutes
when a Navy Seal, who was just released from the Navy,
after serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and had newly
registered for the class, walked up to the Professor.
The
Seal hit him full force in the face. This sent the
Professor tumbling from his platform. The Professor
was out cold.



The students were stunned and shocked.


They began to babble in confusion. The Seal
nonchalantly took his seat in the front row and sat in
silence. The class looked at him and fell silent also
. waiting. Eventually, the professor came to and was
noticeably shaken. He looked at the Seal in the front
row. When the professor regained his senses and could
speak, he asked:

"What the heck is the matter with you? Why did you do
that?"


The Seal said, "God was really busy, protecting
America's soldiers, who are protecting your right to
say stupid things and act like an ass. So, He sent
me."

 

[mindido]

Tex,

And if I were the prof., I'd send the Seal straight to jail!!!

 

[Texan]

Yeah I know you would, cause GOD knows you couldn't kick his ass! LOL

The funny thing is, even though you would send him to jail and probably pursue a civil suit against him, he would give his life to protect you and your family.

 

[moxdevil]

Nice tale there Tex,

Heaven forbid anybody should have the gall to go against the seal who is 'saving' people's freedom, or to put it another way signed up to do what ever his/her government orders him/her to do on its behalf. Whoa to go against what the seal has done, well that would make that somebody a really bad person (isn't that the point of the tale?), cos let's face it unless you side with the seal you're advocating the deaths of all servicemen and women. Emotional blackmail is so pathetic, really Tex.

Theologically-speaking who is he(the seal) to presume god's actions and thinking? or does that not have any bearing in this morality play of yours?

 

[mindido]

Tex,

"GOD knows you couldn't kick his ass!"

Why would I even want to? If I remember correctly, isn't your god supposed to be a god of peace? Isn't he quoted (something to the effect), "turn the other cheek"?

Why is it that the right wings primary response to a given problem usually involves violence?

And yes, if someone were stupid enough to do that to me (assault and battery are a crime where I live), I would prosecute them to the fullest extent allowed, no matter who they are.