War In Iraq/Terrorists

[mindido]

Oh sheesh,

Thats an interesting way to start your tenure here at Exp0sed! By attacking one of the RM's? Especially one that is usually inclined towards your viewpoint? Me smells a ban coming.

Oh, and I take it your real name must be George Bush. He's the ONLY one that I know of thats saying things are going well over there. Oops, I forgot, even he's finally admitted things are pretty rotten over there.

 

[m1abrams]

stating the truth is not an attack. If some one is an Idiot, I'm going to call them on it. And unless you've been there and know whats going on, you have no right to speak out.

 

[ragnorar]

man the middle east lol. i have 2 say. wtf are they gonna do when the oil runs out in 20 years. all their food is mostly import fro oil money. What do they have sand. believe a world war will take place cos of all the refugee's. thats my take anyways.

 

[mindido]

And unless you've been there and know whats going on, you have no right to speak out.

I take it you must be an old Soviet or possibly N Korean and have never heard of the U.S's Bill of Rights. In the US we have the ability to say anything we want. And, depending on your level of education, you also have the ability to analyze situations that are obviously out of control.

 

[m1abrams]

proof of ignorance

I take it you must be an old Soviet or possibly N Korean and have never heard of the U.S's Bill of Rights. In the US we have the ability to say anything we want. And, depending on your level of education, you also have the ability to analyze situations that are obviously out of control.

I take it you either did not read, or can not read what I said. There is a difference between stating opinion, and plain telling lies. I speak based of the facts of what is going on, what I saw, and what i took part in.

 

[mindido]

Uggghhh m1,

I quoted you precisely (you do understand that term?). And you are correct in that there IS a difference between opinion and fact. Since I'm an engineer, I think I understand the difference (as lives and property depend on it). The lies, as have been plainly demonstrated, were told by the Bush administration and continue to this day. In fact (you do understand that term), yesterday (I believe) Bush finally somewhat came close to the truth and said (something to the effect) that "We are not winning but we are not losing". A far cry from what he has perpetrated on the public over these last four or five years.

We used to have a Rush Lumbaugh clone around here, and he disappeared. Seems like a Lumbaugh dinosaur is trying to arise out of the swamp again.

 

[m1abrams]

Look i dont preach politics, i hate our 2 party system we have. I just talk what I know. To sit there and say how bad things are there, when you have never been, dose not make sense. All the schools, and hospitals, clinics, homes, shops, and other things we are doing there far out way the terrorist attacks. In a situation like that exist in Iraq, thing dont go smooth, but we are winning. based just on all the good we have done for a people that were in alot worse shape. To see the families no longer living in fear of the police, or military. For every one muslim there trying to kill us, 1000 run up to shake our hands and thank us. I dont care who sent us in, or really even why anymore. I was there and I felt good for what we did. And yes I am going back. So when i say the opinion's here are based on lies, i say it based on fact. Sorry you have fallen for all the lies in the media and from government folks. And as far as that iraq group that just put out a report on stuff they dont know shit about. Instead of constently saying how wrong it is, and how bad were doing. Why not say thank you to us in the armed services. I have been in now for 11 years. Like i stated i dont claim rep or dem, they both stink. Ok enough rambeling for now.

 

[Iceberg]

m1abrams, if what you say is really true (and that the media and government has misled us and hasn't told us the whole truth of what is going on) and the situation in Iraq is better than it is perceived (and, God, I hope it is true), then that's great to hear. However, the dozens of people who die or are injured every day as a result of insurgent terrorist attacks paint a less rosy picture of the situation.

If it is actually true that for "every one muslim there trying to kill us, 1000 run up to shake our hands and thank us", it is quite reassuring that there may actually be an end to the war at some point as the number of insurgents is bound to run out at some point. However, many more are being bred/converted every day to carry out further terrorist attacks. I just hope that this can be combated enough to achieve some level of security there, not only for the lives of civilians but of you soldiers as well.

m1abrams, I'd really like to believe what you are saying. However, all of what I hear seems to shed doubt on your observations. If there is any way of proving your observations correct, I'd like to know. I will unfortunately remain skeptical since this is the internet and many falsehoods are spread about online.

From a Canadian civilian, thanks for your service in the US military. Recover quickly and stay safe.

 

[Iceberg]

As well, regarding this:

1st, to say the Jewish people are to blame for anything is stupid. They do not control the world, or America. They are in the land they occupied before any one, they are bombed and shelled daily. School buses blown up, women and children gunned down. They have every right to protect them selfs, if that means preemptive strikes so be it.

Amen to that! I agree 100%.

 

[m1abrams]

Thank you Ice. one thing people dont talk much about is. 90% of the insurgents are not iraqi there from other arab countries. So many are Palastinian, and Syrian. So many good things happen there. Compared to the bad. Just go to army web site and surf around, youll see alot of good stories from our troops in the field. Realisticly, this war will be still going on in 10 years. Cause of the root of true islam. Read the karahn and you will see how they are brought up. Its a sad fact, but as long as there are these true muslims, that think killing westerners or jews is a ticket to heaven it wont stop. American Islam is so waterd down compared to what is taught in middle east, Muslims mostly in america half no no clue what the true islamic wold is about. But a majority of the people in Iraq, after being held to islamic law by Sadam relized the flaws in it. They dont want the violence. Trouble is, it is so easy to hide 3 suicide bombers in a city and then unleash them for max damage before we can catch them. It will take a long time and alot of work to fix things there. But we are on the right path and making huge steps. A seldom taught fact in history was the terror tactics used at the end of WW2 by the germans. It took almost 9 years before it was over. There hit and run tactics, and killing any german civilians that were friendly to us. Was bad for a long time. I know this as fact from military history, and my grandfather was a Lt Col in US Army at time. And worked to control these problames. i am A Cpt now and have had my hands on the troubles in Iraq. Its not pretty what happens there. I had to meet with 27 families of men that died when i got back. But like I told them. This is War, it is true if we were not there, they would be hitting all over the world hard. But us being there has got there attention, and brought them there to fight us. Our job, as soldiers if need be is to die to protect our loved one, our families, and our country. We gladly put our lives on the line if it means America is not hit again. Remember Ice, all of what you hear on TV and read on these blogs sites. They take a bad story and spin it to make it 100% worse, cause it makes for a good shocking story. One of the issues with freedom of the press. News media nowadays dont care about telling the whole story or the truth, they just want people to watch. id say listen to Oliver North, who i was lucky enough to meet while over there. He actualy tells it the way it is.

 

[mindido]

Sorry m1,

But I have significant problems with your "facts".

90% of the insurgents are not iraqi there (sic) from other arab countries.

I haven't seen any American General in a long time (including Abizaid) make that claim. In fact, they're all saying exactly the opposite (foreign nationals making up about 2% to 4% of the insurgency). What we're seeing now is primarily Sunni vs. Shiite (i.e., civil war)

Just go to army web site and surf around, youll see alot of good stories from our troops in the field.

Hmmm, me thinks I smell a recruiter. Phun has a lot of those working surreptitiously, maybe you should try there.

Realisticly (sic), this war will be still going on in 10 years.

Do you really believe that the American people will put up with our involvement in that country for 10 years? I sincerely have my doubts about that.

Cause of the root of true islam. Read the karahn and you will see how they are brought up. Its a sad fact, but as long as there are these true muslims, that think killing westerners or jews is a ticket to heaven it wont stop. American Islam is so waterd down compared to what is taught in middle east, Muslims mostly in america half no no clue what the true islamic wold is about.

Here I do agree. Fundamentalists, of any stripe, are a detriment to civilization and ought to be given their own little island to occupy and fight over. Basing a civilization on a "belief" system is ludicrous and dangerous.

But a majority of the people in Iraq, after being held to islamic law by Sadam (sic) relized (sic) the flaws in it.

Sorry m1, but here you are completely wrong. Saddam was secular and only pulled out the religion card when he thought it may be of some benefit. Otherwise, he cared less about Islam and mainly about sustaining power and putting lots of money in his bank accounts.

i am A Cpt now and have had my hands on the troubles in Iraq.

Here we go again. IF you are a Captain, things have apparently really gone down hill since I last worked with the military. The officers I've worked with used to take great pride in their penmanship and their use of the English language. Remember m1, that your useage of the language tells us alot more about you than you suspect.

...it is true if we were not there, they would be hitting all over the world hard.

The logic here is so flawed as to be ridiculous. It was eight years between attacks on the WTC by Al Quaeda (as we know, Iraq had nothing to do with that attack). And if we know anything about Al Quaeda, it is that they are smart and patient. They will hit us again unless we get our sights back on them and figure out a way out of one of the biggest mistakes in US history.

But us being there has got there attention, and brought them there to fight us.

Here you are correct. The Bush administration has created probably the best recruiting tool for terrorists in history. I would even bet that Osama goes to bed every night thanking god for GWB.

Remember Ice, all of what you hear on TV and read on these blogs sites. They take a bad story and spin it to make it 100% worse, cause it makes for a good shocking story. One of the issues with freedom of the press. News media nowadays dont care about telling the whole story or the truth, they just want people to watch.

So, your saying that ALL media sources (left or right) are lying? That seems a bit absurd. Even the moderate conservative writers today recognize that this administration screwed up Iraq. Only the far right wing is making the same claims as you.

id (sic) say listen to Oliver North, who i was lucky enough to meet while over there. He actualy tells it the way it is.

Oliver North!!! The proven liar from Iran/Contra! Please.....I have a lot more intelligence than that.

 

[Texan]

Oliver North in a god damn AMERICAN HERO!!! I have talked to many officers that have served in Iraq and they all predominantly say the same thing. The Iraq we see every night is far different from the Iraq they witnessed on a daily basis.

The best analogy I heard; "Take LA for example, every night they show some type of hideous crime on the news. Does that mean that all of LA is in chaos? "

Looks like this thread needs more visits from the "clone"

M1 welcome, what division are you in?

 

[m1abrams]

3rd

M1 welcome, what division are you in?

I am a member of the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, Second.
Also knows as Sabre Squadron. HOOAH

 

[mindido]

Hey Tex, long time no hear from!

Oliver North in a god damn AMERICAN HERO!!!

Ollie a hero????? Oh c'mon. The military "supposedly" claims that "honesty" is, above all, one of their primary tenets. And old Ollie goes out and gets convicted (if I remember correctly) of perjury? Sounds like a great role model to me.

Looks like this thread needs more visits from the "clone"

"clone"???

M1 welcome, what division are you in?

3d ID? During my travels today, I think I heard (on NPR) that the 3d had just been called up for Iraq again (third or fourth tour). Leaving on or about Jan. 17.

 

[m1abrams]

3d ID? During my travels today, I think I heard (on NPR) that the 3d had just been called up for Iraq again (third or fourth tour). Leaving on or about Jan. 17.

The 3d Armor is still in Iraq. We are not in the 3d ID. Were a cav unit, not infantry.

 

[mindido]

m1,

10-4. My mistake. Although I think what I heard about the 3rd ID on NPR was accurate. At least I'm pretty sure it was the 3rd ID they were talking about.

 

[Iceberg]

But a majority of the people in Iraq, after being held to islamic law by Sadam relized the flaws in it.

m1abrams, this is about the only flaw I saw in your longer post today. Saddam was an iron-fisted dictator who gassed his own people, executed dissidents, and drained the marshlands in the south of Iraq. However, he was secular and only used his Islamic roots when he was in trouble, especially in his last stage of "power" just before he was ousted and when the information minister was saying that Iraqi forces were fighting back the Americans and that the Ba'athists were winning the fight. He had no ties to Al'Qaeda and actually was an enemy of Osama and his band of bastards as Saddam was an obstacle to the Caliphate of Islam that Al'Qaeda aims to set up.

As for Oliver North, I don't know much about him. I'll have to check up on him before I can say anything, though if mindido is right that he was in on the Iran-Contra affair, I'll probably have a negative opinion of him.

 

[mindido]

Ice,

Its been a long time since I thought about it (that incident was back in the early 80's) but you should remember the famous photo of Ollie, in his Marine Corps. uniform, standing in front of some Senate (I think) committee holding his hand in the air promising to tell the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth, etc..... He then went ahead and lied to the committee about trading arms to the Iranians for the American hostages. I don't remember the particulars but it was a complex transaction that was all the news of the day. We probably still don't know what really happened to this day.

 

[Iceberg]

I just read the Wikipedia bio on North and he seems to be a slightly fishy character, though not the devil that Rage Against the Machine or Michael Moore seem to think he is. He did lie to Congress, which is brutal, but his idea (in a certain interpretation) that sometimes it is necessary to break international or national law to dispose of a dictatorial regime.

It was a different age, too, of which I never really experienced since I was only a primary schooler at the time and my parents and their friends never spoke about these matters when I was around them. I understand the "paranoia" or fear of Communists since it was during the Cold War. However, I cannot place myself in it. The closest I can get is by watching "Thirteen Days".

(To take a bit of a tangent, the closest thing I can replace Communism with is Islamic Fundamentalism, though the latter is more destructive since they are geared to sacrifice themselves if necessary to kill Americans, Canadians, Europeans, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, and others. In my view, however, Islamic Fundamentalism belongs among the most diabolical movements in the history of mankind, while Communism was likely a major threat if tensions were just minutes from the breaking point.)

My thoughts are that he is no hero but no villain. Somewhere in that shade of grey where most things are stationed.

 

[mindido]

Ice,

Me thinks you downplay the Cold War a bit too much. When it was going on, it was deadly serious. The specter of tens of thousands of tanks, thousands of aircraft and millions of soldiers lined up in the old Soviet Union was real. There was no doubt, in anyone's mind, that those things existed and would be used against western nations if the time was right. The world came extremely close to annihilating itself during the Cuban missile crisis in the early 60's.

In comparison, Al Quaeda is more like a gnat. They have no nuclear weapons (yet) nor vast armies or armaments. Could they grow to be as big a threat as the old Soviets? Possibly, but I doubt it.

About the only thing I ever agreed with Rumsfeld about was his recognition that the forces against us had changed, and that our military needed to change. During the Cold War the Soviets had millions of men in uniform and equipment that was good enough that we had to keep up. Resulting in the arms race which eventually bankrupted the Soviets. But after the Cold War was over, our military stayed pretty much the same. Training for the same type of enemy.

But our enemy has changed, and Rumsfeld (as well as others earlier) recognized that. But, of course, the military has been fighting the downsizing. What we need today is a very highly trained, very mobile military with an intelligence service that is significantly better than we have now. They need to be able to react to intelligence very quickly and precisely. Have the ability to take out a few insurgents surgically, with little (or preferably no) civilian casualties. But our current approach is equivalent (for the most part) to swatting a fly with a baseball bat. Thats why we're having so many problems in Iraq.