Wrestling 2005

[FlipStar]

I like it...

I like the idea of a unified heavyweight champion and having the U.S. and IC Champs stay on their respective shows. IMO, I think they should pull a page out of the old N.W.A. playbook and make those respective champions the #1 contenders on their particular brands. I think it would add to the prestige of the titles and make for some interesting storylines. Imagine if the IC Champ is constantly having to defend the title on RAW just to insure he gets a shot at the unified champ? And what if that brings heat from the U.S. Champ on Smackdown who feels he's more deserving at getting a shot? Could make for some interesting cross-promotional storylines, especially around the time of the Big 4 PPVs. Also, it wouldn't look like a "step down" in prestige for a former World Heavyweight champion to go after either the IC or U.S. Heavyweight title. Just a thought...

 

[phynix]

I'm not ig unifying the titles is the right way to go as I feel that this would lead to thee being less room on rosters for the bigger stars! Would it be esy if the champ was free to move between Raw and Smackdown to challenge whom every he feels is suitable or worthy! This way work for tag and women titles as well

As for ECW I couldn't agree more it should be left to its own devices with its own set of matches, interviews and opinions with no inclusion of those that are WWE.

SS was a solid PPV that I enjoyed, I havea great more respect for The Miz after what I tought was a very good ECW title match. HBK had one his matches of this year and I bwas left in shock after seeing the crossface. All other matchers were how I thought they would be but I thought Edge would screw Batista?? Edge to win Rumble and go to Mania!!!

 

[nekkid]

Those are all good ideas. I just think in the end they need the brand extention simply because they have too many wrestlers employeed in the company now. If you think about it the wwf absorbed 2 full rosters in early 2000's ecw and wcw. I think if there was only one belt, that there would be a TON of backstage politics like the old wcw and we would only see champions like HHH, HBK, Undertaker ect (Those with all the political power), but if there is another belt or two then we can see guys like cm punk, lashley, cena, orton, batista and edge get a chance to run with the ball.

Also, I went to 'mania 23 in detroit and I got to see 2 world championship matches AND a high profile celebrity match. Both championship matches FELT like championship matches also. Would anybody have really cared about UNdertaker and Batista if smackdown didn't get its own belt? I don't think so.

I do believe however if they have brand splits that they should keep it that way. LIke many of you said that ecw should be its own just like raw. UNless its a ppv all wrestlers should only appear on their respective shows.

So IMO as long as Vince employs almost 3 full rosters of wrestlers then the brand extention is needed. However I think the main problem with the wwe right now is that there are way too many wrestlers, way too many storylines, and way too many belts. It is just simply too confusing for the average casual fan. I think that a big reason why the wwe did so well in the attitude era was because Vince didn't have a huge roster and the audience got to see character development when they saw the same charcters week in and week out. Quality not Quanity.

For example, my girlfriend and I had this conversation (she only watches because I do)

(We were watching raw)

GF: Where is that HUGe weird guy with that gigantic chin? (Khali)

Me: He is only on friday shows.

GF: Why?

Me: They do it because of too many guys, there was a draft, umm.. long story.

(Khali apprears on raw with dx)

GF: Wait there he is. Why is on the monday show?

Me: Well, sometimes they just show up.

GF: That is stupid.

Me: Ya I know.

 

[phynix]

Am I the only person who now want more conversations from Nekkid and his Girlfriend?

Y2J returns tonight new look new moves new Y2J - He'll still have the walls right??

Carlito asked for his release last week so expevt him either gone soon or sooner.

 

[Static2093]

ok............who is ur guys Favorert of all time wreslter? i say TaTanka

 

[Stingray]

Because I suck at recoding things properly, all my responses will be in green.

Those are all good ideas. I just think in the end they need the brand extention simply because they have too many wrestlers employeed in the company now. If you think about it the wwf absorbed 2 full rosters in early 2000's ecw and wcw. I think if there was only one belt, that there would be a TON of backstage politics like the old wcw and we would only see champions like HHH, HBK, Undertaker ect (Those with all the political power), but if there is another belt or two then we can see guys like cm punk, lashley, cena, orton, batista and edge get a chance to run with the ball.

Ironically, though, none of the power-players are champions now, nor look to be regaining any of the big titles in the near future. Power plays have never been that big of an issue in WWE (by comparison), and I can't see that being the case if they were to unify the titles. Especially given the importance of a singular title in comparison to a divided & devalued championship like the pair they're working with now.

Also, I went to 'mania 23 in detroit and I got to see 2 world championship matches AND a high profile celebrity match. Both championship matches FELT like championship matches also. Would anybody have really cared about UNdertaker and Batista if smackdown didn't get its own belt? I don't think so.

I couldn't disagree more with this. There were dual/triple Main events going on at Mania long before there were dual titles, with those matches playing just as big a part. Yes, this year's were exceptional bouts, but I can't say that for the vast majority of years there have been dual title bouts. Most of the time one of them is great & the other one is awful.

So IMO as long as Vince employs almost 3 full rosters of wrestlers then the brand extention is needed. However I think the main problem with the wwe right now is that there are way too many wrestlers, way too many storylines, and way too many belts. It is just simply too confusing for the average casual fan.

I don't think its a matter of too much of anything, but rather not enough focus on what's going on at any given moment. The writers waffle the storylines too much, and half the time don't adhere to whatever guidelines it looks like they've set up. As a result, storylines go on too long or stop too abruptly, pushes vanish overnight, and tag teams start & end like someone turning off the kitchen faucet.

Quality not Quanity.
True, but only to an extent. Think about it if the roster were halved. With injuries to Lashley, Rey, Undertaker, Edge, HBK, HHH, & Cena, plus Big Show, Angle, & RVD leaving the company pretty much all at the same time (not to mention Benoit) that leaves a HUGE hole in the top of the card, and only about 3 guys capable of filling it convincingly. Match quality goes up, risk factor goes up, injury/physical wear goes up, which means in the long run productivity goes down. With the high physical wear in the business as it is nowadays, a big roster is almost a necessity.

 

[nekkid]

Am I the only person who now want more conversations from Nekkid and his Girlfriend?

QUOTE]

haha. Very compelling stuff. huh?

 

[nekkid]

Well Stingray the powerplayers were all injured until recently that is (probably) why they weren't/aren't champions recently. HHH, HBK, 'taker, all just came off injuries. Power plays never been a problem in the wwe? This is always a problem in ANY organization. There may have been less problems in the wwe than wcw at one point but the wwe has had MAJOR political issues... Bret not wanting to put over hbk and vice versa, Austin not wanting to put over HHH, Austin not wanting to work with Jarett, Hogan not wanting to lose to HBK, HBK not wanting to put Austin over. I could go on. There has been less it seems as of late with more titles.


I agree mostof the time the matches in previous ppv's and wrestlemania's since the brand extension had one superior title match (usually raw) but that takes time to build. It took a while for people to accept 2 belts. I think it has worked.

As far as the guys getting hurt. I mean ya, it happens. And when it does it seems they all happen at once. But that is the nature of the business. Vince has actually taken steps to do less high flying and dangerous in-ring stuff so I think "now-a-days" the guys get hurt less. When a guy gets hurt someone else steps up and carries the ball. I thought Vince put out his best product when he had his thinnest roster ever in the late 90's. In 96 he didn't really have enough guys for the royal rumble. Matter of opinion I guess.

 

[nekkid]

Well its been 10 years since the old montreal screw job. I was wondering what you guys think looking back at it now (I just watched wrestling with shadows on youtube) do you guys think the whole thing was a work? and why?

 

[Stingray]

Well Stingray the powerplayers were all injured until recently that is (probably) why they weren't/aren't champions recently. HHH, HBK, 'taker, all just came off injuries.

Granted, but all have been all but eliminated from the immediate title picture in the last 2, 3 months as well, with new angles leading them away from the title picture. (at least for the time being)

Power plays never been a problem in the wwe? This is always a problem in ANY organization. There may have been less problems in the wwe than wcw at one point but the wwe has had MAJOR political issues... Bret not wanting to put over hbk and vice versa, Austin not wanting to put over HHH, Austin not wanting to work with Jarett, Hogan not wanting to lose to HBK, HBK not wanting to put Austin over. I could go on. There has been less it seems as of late with more titles.

And how many of those issues were dealt with & done anyhow? Hart & Michaels traded wins for over a year, as did Austin & HHH. Nobody wanted to work with Jarret -- pitfall of working for daddy when you start is that you never have to lose. Kinda makes you full of yourself. -- and Hogan's ALWAYS been *that guy*. Austin & Michaels did their share of working together as well. I can honestly say that with the exceptions of some of the Rock-n-Wrestling era guys (Hogan in particular), I can't think of a single politicking matter that's prevented an angle from moving forward in WWE, particularly in a title scenario. That's not to say it hasn't happened, but unlike what we've seen in the only real comparitive market (WCW) it hasn't been a hinderance to the show in any degree. I can't see how that would change in the modern era if there was a singular title again.

I agree mostof the time the matches in previous ppv's and wrestlemania's since the brand extension had one superior title match (usually raw) but that takes time to build. It took a while for people to accept 2 belts. I think it has worked.

I'm not saying the dual title thing hasn't worked. It's worked fine. I just don't think it's necessary any longer. I think having 2 (3 if you count ECW) world titles devalues the concept of the world title. And with the number of main event stars now, it would be easier to have a more varied series of programs for the title & maintain a longer reigning champion now than it was when they divided them to begin with. (Especially since, looking at Cena & Batista, the company seems to be favoring longer reigns again.

As far as the guys getting hurt. I mean ya, it happens. And when it does it seems they all happen at once. But that is the nature of the business. Vince has actually taken steps to do less high flying and dangerous in-ring stuff so I think "now-a-days" the guys get hurt less.

I disagree. I think we're seeing more injuries now than we ever did prior, &/or those injuries are far more lasting/serious than they used to be. I don't think it's the fault of any policy or anything, I just think it's the progressive nature of the business. Put on a bigger show, get more opportunities. Bigger show = bigger spots = bigger risks = etc.

When a guy gets hurt someone else steps up and carries the ball. I thought Vince put out his best product when he had his thinnest roster ever in the late 90's. In 96 he didn't really have enough guys for the royal rumble. Matter of opinion I guess.

Yeah...see, I thought the stuff in the late 90's, exception of the main event scene, was pretty much garbage, but we've had that discussion here before. I think....or was that the wrestling board I hit, where I was going on about the Butterbean v. Marc Mero/Factions Galore/Ron Simmons in the foam Gladiator outfit stuff?

 

[Stingray]

Well its been 10 years since the old montreal screw job. I was wondering what you guys think looking back at it now (I just watched wrestling with shadows on youtube) do you guys think the whole thing was a work? and why?

Honestly? I'm as indifferent to it now as I was then. I think it was mishandled on both ends, and in the long run, affected next to nothing.

 

[Dragulf]

10 years later, Brett is a whiny bitch and Vince is a jackass. Nope, nothing has changed...

 

[reiko_sawamura]

At least things between them are better than what's between Vince and Randy Savage

 

[nekkid]

Well the reason that I brought up the question is because almost unanimously the wrestling community believs that "If its on tv its a work". I was wondering if you guys think the screwjob was planned for ratings or for Bret Hart to be Vince's "spy" in wcw. It would be odd if after ten years that all three guys (Vince, HBK and Bret) haven't all come to the ring and said "gotcha" by now. So I take it everybody thinks what we saw was real?

 

[reiko_sawamura]

Well the reason that I brought up the question is because almost unanimously the wrestling community believs that "If its on tv its a work". I was wondering if you guys think the screwjob was planned for ratings or for Bret Hart to be Vince's "spy" in wcw. It would be odd if after ten years that all three guys (Vince, HBK and Bret) haven't all come to the ring and said "gotcha" by now. So I take it everybody thinks what we saw was real?

It was very real. Vince didn't want Bret showing up on WCW with the WWF title, so he screwed him over despite the fact that Bret basically told Vince he would drop the title anywhere else save for in Canada.

 

[nekkid]

Right. I realise that. Some people believe that is false. They believe that It was a work/ruse to get Bret to wcw as a spy for vince and the wwe. I just wanted to see if anyone believed that. I guess not.

 

[elmerfudd]

All I know is that after Bret Hearts Last match for WWF , that punch he gave McMahn was so-freaken-real . McMahon was even wobbly walking down the hall from Brets Dressing room.

 

[phynix]

In my opinion it was real but there is a lot of unaswered questions so who knows they may very well have been some talk of spying or whatever i guess we the public will never know the whole truth.

 

[nekkid]

What unanswered questions phynix? Do you mean things that are weird about the situation that might point toward it being fake?

 

[Stingray]

The only thing I've ever really questioned in all that mess was the depth of HBK's involvement. Most of the bad blood I heard/read about was coming from Bret's side throughout their feuding years, which leads one to believe Shawn's sincerety when he said he wasn't involved prior to the bell ringing. At the same time, he admits to being a pretty big asshole back in the day, so it's not much of a stretch to think maybe he was involved.

Either way, I don't particularly care. It'd be great if Hart could start talking about something and NOT turn it into a "the WWE treated me like shit" lecture, though.