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blueoystercult

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Imagetwist and rules revisions: PLEASE READ AND COMMENT

In the last couple of days someone identifying himself as being one of the heads of Imagetwist contacted me with regards adware and aggressive popup issues. This connversation has not always been pleasant but it does now seem to be producing results that may be positive for this forum.
Below are his two most recent messages to me:

hp_imagetwist said:
I just chatted with my partner, You wanted change. I am ready to do it as i wrote.

We have 2 annoying this for now. Network popups

Full page advertisement, ( Continue to image) However, that script is intent do work properly but not everyone's browser is same thats the reason some people face problem while clicking on it, It does not take you to image or something else happens. And i agree obstruction between content is always annoying


2 Solutions to these 2 problems are:

1) We move to revshare progkem - We'll have to go revshare with any of the product and this will cost me atleast $5000 cause at start i will have no or low sales. But annoying popup problem will be solved.

2) We remove continue to image ad and go revshare with old IM advertisement. This will again cost me over $5500, for the same reason.


We have decided we will do 1 at a time and we will try to find a direct buyer for another spot until than.

hp_imagetwist said:
Starting today, adsterra ( network) popups are removed and livejasmin are up. I hope this solves the crappy ads problem. Don't worry i am mature enough to not remove it in some days or week. this popup won't get removed unless sold directly to some cam or dating buyer.

I'll try to find a buyer for IM and get rid of continue to image too. I hope this step has somewhat a progress towards filling trust gap between you and me.

Though previously they have ignored my attempts to contact them directly to address concerns and issues, they now seem to be trying to find constructive solutions that would see the aggressive advertising and potentially harmful links and scripts removed. In addition to this, they have also expressed a commitment to resolving the problem of random failed links and image deletions though to my mind this is of far less import than dealing with the adware, pop-ups and other overly aggressive advertising issues.
In a spirit of co-operation I would therefore suggest a hiatus on removing Imagetwist as an approved host for a period of 3-6 months to see how their new policies work and to determine if these new open dialogue channels allow for real and positive change and co-operation going forward.
Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions please?
BOC
 
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blueoystercult

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Unbelievable.
I remind you all that IMAGETWIST CAME TO ME. This fellow sent a PM claiming links with LarryO and asking to Skype. I have no idea who he is so I told him if he really does have links here he should get my email from admin and contact me directly from a verifiable company address. When I heard nothing from anyone after a day I rsponded again. The following are copies of some of my responses to them.

blueoystercult said:
No email from you so I have no idea if you're bull****ing me or not.
Below is an edited version of a response of mine during a private discussion that sets out a lot. No secrets about my views all of which have been publicly declared. Imagetwist isn't the only offendng host but it is the worst of the bunch. And it's not just me. There isn't an image moderator on this board who doesn't HATE Imagetwist. And that is not hyperbole. Just a few days ago a member came full of fury to us because one of Imagetwist's windows crashed his phone. And that's a benign ad policy is it?
Crap.
Frankly I don't give a DAMN what the PR says about how Imagetwist manages advertising. I know from bitter experience how Imagetwist behaves. All I did was put a voice on what people have been moaning and bitching about for a very long time. I decided to do something about it. That is why Imagetwist is being removed as an approved host on this forum.
What can be done to rectify the complaints? That's self explanitory isn't it?
BOC

blueoystercult said:
Sorry for my brief reply earlier. It's been a bit of a day.
Okay. Imagetwist. The issue isn't altogether the frequency of their ads.
As well as checking content, part of what i do here is to try to make sure that no links contain spyware, malware or adware. This is why anyone who posts link shortners with cash ad clicks are banned summarily. Those pages are among the worst offenders.
Image hosts use advertising to capitalise their service. It's how they pay the bills and something we accept in return for a free service. The problem with Imgetwist and, increasingly recently, Imagevenue and now Imagebam) is that they overload the pages with inline and popup ads and don't properly check the code of those ads, simply adding it automatically to pages. Not all, but enough for it to be an issue.
In order to keep everyone safe I open a selection of links in posts to see how they run. I have a standard AV, Firewall, anti-spyware/malware/adware system on the machine I use for moderation. The images SHOULD load with those basic things running. Frankly, in today's world, surfing the net without such things is akin to riding bareback in Bangkok brothel.
If a page refuses to load unless those basic protections are disabled then that's a real cause for concern. I therefore sandbox the links and replace them with neutral ones once I've grabbed the posted images. I have had imagetwist pages open so many popups my machine has crashed. I'm not alone in this. I've had ads of theirs light up my protections like Christmas trees. And no one, ever, should have to "continue to image" or "confirm you want to leave this page". It may seem harmless but you have no idea what clicking those confirmations actually means, or what you may, unknowingly, be agreeing to have installed, and the standard internet practice of "Trust No-one" holds true.
It's not every page which means, I suspect, they have an automated system and the amount of ads contained in each page depends on who is paying and how much. If I come across somethign that stops normal page loading with basic protections I swap it out.
I don't want anyone coming to me with "This link gave me a virus".
...
I know P&H are slow, but they are the host bundled with the forum and are a neutral host I rarely use for my own material. No one can accuse me of hijacking posts for my own benefit.
SNXS and imgbox have their downsides, but... both have been stable for years. They don't randomly delete or lose images as the other main players do. Most significantly, I have never, EVER, had an image fail to load with standard protections running. Add to that that they store in galleries which makes organising alot of material easy and you can see why I would advocate them....
Bottom line, you see as an occassional user. I see as a moderator who opens everything and whose responsibility it is to keep all the children in the playpen safe.
Make sense?
BOC

blueoystercult said:
OK. Let's get something straight, old stick.
At no point have I written you "promote" Malware. My exact words
blueoystercult said:
Image hosts use advertising to capitalise their service. It's how they pay the bills and something we accept in return for a free service. [As Above. Edited in this post for character limit]
This is a fair assessment of an ongoing problem that allows for the fact that you take the ad money and dump the script provided into the box without checking it
None of this absolves you of propagating this situation by creating pages that force protections to be disabled in order to load fully, or demand confirmation (which we have no way of knowing what other JS commands they might control) to navigate to the actual page or to leave the page (if I didn't want to go to the page why would I click the thumbnail to take me there and if I didn't want to leave the page why would I try to close the tab?) then you are tacitly creating an environment that propagates those problems. Claiming ignorance is a nonsense. It's your site. Claiming these things don't happen is a nonsense. We've all experienced it.
Irrespective of that, I really don't appreciate someone trying to defend the indefensible by putting words in my mouth.
So far you have tried to twist what I have said into something else entirely, and your "proof" of contact with site admin is an imagetwist error notification. And you come to me with "trust me"?
I think perhaps you should reconsider your position and your arguments before coming back to me with whatever else you may have to say.
The bottom line here however is that what happens on some pages on your site is what happens and I will continue to swap out overloaded ad links or anything that doesn't load with protections running until your site is removed from the approved list and I no longer have to waste hours of my life doing so. If you truly want me to reconsider my position then the first thing you have to do is convince me you are genuine by addressing all of the issues you are now fully aware of.
BOC

I resent like hell any implication that I have behaved in any way improperly. I saw an opportunity to negotiate hard to rectify what would present a problematic change for admin and in not giving an inch I secured what I believe to be a very good compromise. I have had no contact with them whatsoever outside this forum and every one of those PMs remains in my archive and is available to everyone to read if they wish. I copied both LarryO and Yakovitch into the last as we got to a stage where I could secure something positive.
Their best friend? I'm offering the compromise of a pause while we evaluate whether their proposed changes are good for this forum. So instead of casting aspersions how about we evaluate those proposals like grownups and see if we can salvage something from a shitty situation? Alternatively, if you think you can do better, please, be my guest. But you might want to ask yourself why, amidst all the bitching that has gone on so far, no one thought to take the hard line I have for the last few months in order to do what I did today.
BOC
 
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blueoystercult

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Latest exchange.

blueoystercult said:
Personally I think all you have done is swap one set of nightmares for another. However, in the interest of fairness I put your messages to me together with a proposal to the entire moderation staff and administrators that we postpone the removal of Imagetwist as an approved host and take a few weeks to evaluate the changes.
Thus far the only response from ANYONE in a position of respnsibility on this board has been to call me nuts and to insinuate something averse in my "about turn".
I understand that you are running an enterprise and trying to make money from it, but other hosts like Imgbox and ShareNXS manage to do so without being intrusive and aggressive and pissing everyone off.
Why can't you?
BOC


hp_imagetwist said:
So what do you think on the change i made ? I did not got any response from you on a positive step i took.

Regards

Best friend my pale hairy arse.
BOC
 

blueoystercult

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Copied in so you know what I'm about and no one can insinuate I've lost my senses or am taking back handers.

blueoystercult said:
Fairly simple really.
Your ads unfold like clown car and operate like a brute force attack. Not on every page which is why I have never swapped out every file posted on Imagetwist, but enough for me to get hacked off and turn it into a fight. I'm an obstinate bastard which doesn't make me too popular, but since I tend to get very pissed off about things that make sense people know why and they run with it.
All the ads in Imgbox, SNXS, ImgBam, even Imagevenue, can be blocked or shunted and they don't interfere with the normal loading of the page or harm the user's machine. Ever. Put simply, Imagetwist forces ads down our throats. The other hosts do not. Yours are the only pages whose ads have triggered averse responses from AV and Spybot; and no one has ever complained about other hosts' pages crashing anything.
As I wrote in the response to one of our members I sent to you, the chances are these ad scripts and codes may be automatic and the host site [you] doesn't check them, but that does not absolve you of the responsibility.
As an aside, most of those hosts store in galleries which is useful to forum posters. You do not. Most of those hosts do not rename their files when one clicks "save image as" or whatever. Imagetwist does. These are small niggles. Having ads rammed down our throats and our computers and phones crashing when we open certain pages hosted by Imagetwist is more than just a pain in the backside.
You want to know why we prefer those hosts to yours and I'm telling you. You can get pissed off about it or you can listen. There is a balance between profitability and complete loss and that is what you are facing because you have operated with this single mindedness for ages and refused to discuss things. I have used yor "contact us" page three times to bring this up with no reply. Now suddenly it's come to bite you on the arse and you want to talk. Where the hell were you months ago when I started sending yor company messages about this?
Here's the simple truth. You can have lots of little or you can have bugger all of loads. The bottom line as we stand right now is that while I have put things before the rest of the board for open minded discussion
so that everyone can see and evaluate how your changes work and how this new regime of communication between us stands, and while it is my intention that we have then a frank discussion and decide from there as a group as it should be, my inclination when we begin to discuss things is still to dump Imagetwist like a hot rock.
However. I'm still grown up enough and open minded enough to give things some time and a chance to see where you go with it.
BOC

hp_imagetwist said:
Why you keep comparing imgbox or sharenxs with imagetwist, we both follow different way of work.


They have 3-4ads including 1 popup 1-2 banners. They don't track each visit source, affiliate system, numbers money and everything. Thus database don't put that much load on there servers and i am ready to bet my 7 experience that we have better server config than them. And they don't share a penny with you.


I follow totally different program, I share my 70% revenue with similar or an extra advertisement system which i need to run. My database have tons of load than them cause of this system. To balance the load we have best cpu available in world.

Site you are comparing me with went down for weeks , we don't.

They have less ads cause they don't pay users anything. They are fast cause they don't have to track anything which we need to. They can offer hotlinking, we cannot.

However, I still try to keep things better, I have best server, only problem i am facing is with ads. I have tried to kept as low as possible keeping in mind about expenses i have. I know i had network ads which can show you anything from mackeeper to adult cams to any software. But a adult cam promotion is i think fair and clean promotion.


I know i still have to get rid of full page "continue to image" but give me time, I am trying my best to get rid of it but i need a buyer for IM ad which is hard to find due to limited number of advertisers.


Thank you for it ( about decision) I am trying my best.
 

blueoystercult

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blueoystercult said:
A couple of points.
My browsers (I use Firefox AND Chrome to give me the best read on what forum members are seeing and experiencing) are set up to clear all caches each time they are closed. Everything. No automatic sign ins, no stored passwords, no remembered history or cookies. All gone. I do this for security, for stability of the programs, and to ensure that each time I open a link or a page it is not disrupted by something from past sessions.
On the machine used for moderation I have activated standard plug-ins and standard free protections because this is the most likely common setup used by the majority. I have not gone hunting for anything special. Just used the most popular for each browser. Again, this will show me what, if any, problems are being experienced by forum users.
It's not EVERY page. It has, historically, been a sufficient number of pages for me to begin to take action when it became clear that no one from Imagetwist would respond to my messages. Opening one page now wouldn't particularly make any difference if the history is anything to go by. This is why I proposed a hiatus on decisions so that your changes could be evaluated over time and in total, and not just on one page or one browsing session. We must be sure that the changes are consistent and long term and not just enough to shut us up for now.
As for Larry, he has been involved in these discussions for weeks and has never once mentioned you. To my knowledge none of the other image moderators are aware you are even a member here. Had they been then I'm sure they would have spoken to you directly. Interstingly I and other moderators for some time carried images in our post signatures similar to this



Given how prolific we are on the board, it's a little surprising you were unaware.
Beyond that I cannot comment except to say I tried on my own to start a dialogue with your company on several occasions and got nowhere.
I was not looking for instantaneous fixes then. I'm not looking for instantaneous fixes now. The removal of Imagetwist as a host here has been a point of discussion for months. I began swapping out your intrusive links on 2nd September 2015 when Spybot alerted me to yet another trojan buried in one of the bundled ads and my patience snapped.
I don't think you're evil. I think you set up a business model to make you money. I think you make agreements with ad companies who add scripts and code to your pages and you never properly examined what those scripts and codes were. I think that you arrogantly thought that no forum would ever stop you since the posters were getting their fractions of a penny per click. It never occurred to you that moderators on a forum would be sufficiently angry to remove you as a host, and now you see that as a very real possibility and you recognise that where one forum goes others usually follow.
Now here is something for you to think about. All this time I spend on getting things right for this forum. I am not paid a penny for any of it. I didn't even take up the offer of file host memberships. Nothing. I am one of the more prolific posters. I have never, ever, stored a single image on your host despite your "pay incentive" And why? Because the negatives outweigh that one positive and I will not put members at risk to make a few pennies for myself.
I have no stake in this game beyond the best possible forum as risk free as I can make it for all our members to enjoy. That is my responsibility and I take it seriously.
I try to be a resonable, sensible person, and look for compromise where I can. This is why I have suggested to moderators and administrators that we postpone action to evaluate your changes over a period and discuss it between us before taking that final step. In the meantime I am perfectly happy to discuss the matter with you to explore solutions, though I should in the interest of full disclosure make it clear that I am making our discussion available to all moderators.
That remains my best possible compromise position on this matter for now.
BOC


hp_imagetwist said:
Okay your experience has been bad with us i accept. I want you to please click a url of our right now. With both adblock OFF and ON.

I want you to share your experience on what you see right now. Please clean cookiee.


I accept i had 1 popup which was visible to adblock users from past 3 months cause adblock number was huge and it was affecting revenue since i was paying my affiliates for every visitor. BUT we removed that code 3-4 days ago before talking to you.

So i think your whole experience of forcing ad even with blocker is based on that which is removed and it won't go up. I removed it cause i came to know by a friend in ad network who make me understand that showing ad to a user who already uses adblock is worth nothing. They will not buy anything cause they already using adblock and it will make more harm then profit. So i removed it.


So 2 changes i made are: Removed ads for users running adblockers

Removed network popup. i hope removing "full page" ad will make things lot better.




About contacting us, I know you will not believe me but i never saw any msg from you or anyone regarding this. When i came to know 2-3 days ago that some mod is deleting links, I contacted you. I did not knew that there was a plan to remove us but i contacted you at very moment that user contacted me through live chat.



I know you think i am some evil or something but trust me i have always tried to be friendly with everyone, Help webmasters out, listen to their complaints, I even listen to a small blog owner if he wants me to ban someone. I have kept larry and many other webmaster on my skype, why ? To video chat with them ?

No, so that i can insta listen to their problem and insta fix it. That's the reason i asked yours. I have told larry many times in past that if you need me to ban any spammer or anyone he can tell me. He even contacted me in past just once and i fixed it in minutes. I always though if a mod have any problem, he will contact me through larry or here on boards ,Thats why i am registered here from years.

Anyway that's all from my side. I know you will think i made up most of this, but i am exactly you want me to. you will find me on every board, most of the popular image host won't even care to do that.


Regards.

Still think I'm a crazy person backtracking or allowing himself to be bribed?
FFS
 
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blueoystercult

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