Rap "Artists"

[RichieTBaum]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that nekkid is completely missing the point when it comes to "stealing beats." First of all, the practice is called "sampling" and while I dislike much of today's rap music, there are plenty of good rap artists that make good use of samples. The Beastie Boys have an excellent history with samples, just listen to "She's Crafty." Besides just rap, there are some kickass dj's that can make entire songs out of nothing but random samples. For a great example, download the song "Frontier Psychiatrist" by The Avalanches. They sample various western movie quotes and combine them to make a unique song.

I will admit that some rappers either suck at sampling or take it too far.
The only example that i can think of where stealing of a beat actually occured is "Ice, ice, Baby."
Vanilla Ice obviously took the beat from "Under Pressure" and things only got worse when he tried to explain how his beat wasn't the same.

 

[elmerfudd]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that nekkid is completely missing the point when it comes to "stealing beats." First of all, the practice is called "sampling" and while I dislike much of today's rap music, there are plenty of good rap artists that make good use of samples. The Beastie Boys have an excellent history with samples, just listen to "She's Crafty." Besides just rap, there are some kickass dj's that can make entire songs out of nothing but random samples. For a great example, download the song "Frontier Psychiatrist" by The Avalanches. They sample various western movie quotes and combine them to make a unique song.

I will admit that some rappers either suck at sampling or take it too far.
The only example that i can think of where stealing of a beat actually occured is "Ice, ice, Baby."
Vanilla Ice obviously took the beat from "Under Pressure" and things only got worse when he tried to explain how his beat wasn't the same.

Never heard of it ! I've heard of "Mash-up" More or less an overlay of 2 other songs. Like , Nazareth's "Hair of the Dog" and an original song by "Chris Classic" called "Live and Loose. You've might have heard on the Dodge commercial .Or "Diddy's" I'll be missing you and "The Police's" - I'll be watching you.

 

[nekkid]

Ummm... Richietbaum did you read what I wrote

"People get kind of angry when I say this but, every rap star steals beats, sure maybe some have come up with SOME original beats but the have all sampled or stolen beats at one point which I do not consider a talent."

I know what sampling is I think that I made that clear. MY point was that I do not think that it takes a hell of a lot of talent to do it.

What if I was a comedian and took a bunch of really great jokes from comedians of the past, maybe threw in a little change in them, and then called them my own? See in that case you don't think that takes talent do you? Why doesn't this same sentiment exist for rap? I'll tell you its because you grew up with it, and you were "used" to it.

"good use" of sampling is an opinion. I would much rather hear someone come up with a new beat to get their message across instead of using someone else's creation.

A bad use of sampling is "Ice Ice baby"?? Are you kidding me? First of all Vanilla ice said that the beat was different because he did not want to get sued by David Bowie and Queen. Yes, its obviously "under pressure" just like at the same time "u can't touch this" was "superfreak" by rick james. and about 10,000 other rap songs.

Eminem stole the beat from the song "criminal" from Jacques Louissier's "pulsion" and has refused to pay the royalties.

A bad sample ini my opinion would be any song ever by p.diddy.

 

[RichieTBaum]

Like I said, some sampling requires talent whether you think so or not. The comedian example doesn't apply completely because nowadays, rappers do not claim the beats as their own. In fact, samples are simply a backdrop to ORIGINAL lyrics. Rappers commonly use samples as a means of invoking familiarity with an otherwise new song. In other words, the lyrics are what is new whereas the sample is the familiar backdrop to the song.

Plenty of rap artists make new beats and plenty use samples as a part of making a new beat. Your definition of a new beat is basically that every part of it must be original. IMO, a beat can be classified as new even if it includes parts of other beats or songs.

Also, you call me out by asking if I "read your post," and I ask you the same thing. I did not call "Ice Ice baby" a bad use of sampling. I said that it was one of the only cases where a beat was straight-up stolen from another song. Today, rappers must get clearance to use samples. In fact, many potentially classic rap songs have been lost because artists did not approve the samples. As an example, try and find "Lonely People" by Talib Kweli. The beat is basically sampled from the Beatles song "Eleanor Rigby." The track didn;t make it onto the final cut of his CD beacuse Sir Paul refused to approve of the sample.

Lastly, you say that sampling doesn't require a lot of talent, so I challenge you to take any
a-cappella version of a rap song and give it a new, sampled beat. While that may be a cliche' response, I feel that it is valid and would prove that it does indeed require some talent. Also, do yourself a favor and download "Frontier Psychiatrist" by the Avalanches. As I said before, it's a uniqe song and you'll see how samples can be used to great effect.

 

[grrboy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/nyregion/20kim.html

First female Rap Artist to go to Prison.......Whats with these Rap Artists and Prisons?.............They seem to share a lot of Love.

 

[nekkid]

"Lastly, you say that sampling doesn't require a lot of talent, so I challenge you to take any
a-cappella version of a rap song and give it a new, sampled beat. While that may be a cliche' response, I feel that it is valid and would prove that it does indeed require some talent. Also, do yourself a favor and download "Frontier Psychiatrist" by the Avalanches. As I said before, it's a uniqe song and you'll see how samples can be used to great effect. "

I am very familiar with the avalanches. You hav got to be kidding about coming up with new beats for rapp songs... Rappers remake, remix, and redo everything like 12 times. Then you have the club remixes. I mean, it happens almost constantly. So the challenge has been fulfilled quite a bit.

I guess I did read your ice, ice baby sentence wrong sorry.


"
The comedian example doesn't apply completely because nowadays, rappers do not claim the beats as their own. In fact, samples are simply a backdrop to ORIGINAL lyrics. Rappers commonly use samples as a means of invoking familiarity with an otherwise new song. In other words, the lyrics are what is new whereas the sample is the familiar backdrop to the song. "


You did not explain why the comedian example "does not appl". Because rappers do not claim beats as their own anymore? That is not true and it doesn't make sence.

Not true...
As I stated earlier Eminem is one example of someone trying to "steal" beats. There have been other cases well, I believe the rappers name is common.
-"Original" is being very generous as well.

Doesn't make sense...
If a comedian did what a rapper did. He/she would get ridiculed.. Period. How did you explain that my example doesn't work?

"In other words, the lyrics are what is new whereas the sample is the familiar backdrop to the song"

Familiar backdrop=unoriginal beat that someone else came up with that th rapper decided to use because he/she isn't creative/musically gifted enough to do on their own.

lyrics are what is new=lyrics in some cases are slightly new, and if completely new it doesn't really matter beacuse the song would be considered half original becaue of the beat.

Listen to some of the songs that these rappers have sampled from its not exactly original lyrics either. For example 2pac, the supposed Elvis Presley of rap, had a song called "part time mother". He used the same beat from Lionel Richie's song, and changed the name from "Part time lover" to "mother". hahahahahahaha. That is so stupid. Listen to Parliament , george Clinton, Rick James, Stevie Wonder, these guys are HEAVILY sampled by rap. You will hear a lot of the same damn lyrics in these songs.

How about Snoop dogg sing ing "snoop doggy dogg" instead of "atmoic dog" hahahah. oh my go how did he do that? He is a lyrical genius. If he handed those lyrics in for an 8th grade paper he would get a flat out "F".

When a comedian uses someone else' jokes and puts a new spin on it (its happened before). The are considered hacks. That completely applies here. Puff daddy took the exeact same beat from led zeppelin's kashmir and said "come with me" every once in a while. A lot of people say, when I use that example, "ya but that is puff daddy not everyone else is taht bad" WRONG. Kashmir and puff daddy are both very popular. So you "know" the sample and the lyrics. Just because you haven't "heard " the sample before doesn't mean its original.

Puff daddy is a hack. All rappers are hacks. There is no getting around it. Whether you think rappers are talented or not the bottom line is that you CAN NOT call them original; therefore they are not credible musicians.

The bottom line is is that in my opinion Weird al Yankovic is every bit as talented (maybe more) than any rapper in history. Think about it he does ecactly what they do!!! At least al can play the accordian.

 

[Supafly]

All rappers are hacks. There is no getting around it. Whether you think rappers are talented or not the bottom line is that you CAN NOT call them original; therefore they are not credible musicians.

That's complete bullshit. All music is or has been derivied from other forms of music. It's the progression of music. It always has and always will be this way. Given some rappers make a career out of sampeling and cranking out bs pop songs. But, rappers are todays poets. I don't listen to rap or hip hop much anymore. But I use to rhyme and I know what it takes to create music.

 

[pork_soda]

Fact is most rappers arent musically trained, and the rappers arent doing the direct sampling they have engineers and producers taking care of that. All that the rappers seem to do is have beats made for them, see if they can rap over it, if they cant they hand it to a fellow rapper. You hear about it all the time. But you got to give them credit they can write lyrics and that seems to be there main focus (except pop rappers). And to say there talking over it is not entirely a correct comment. I consider it more of a precussion with your voice. Unlike changing notes like traditional singing they speed up and slow down and exaggerate surtain words on beat which if you dont have natural rhythm, it comes out pretty shitty.

I for one dont enjoy rap that much but as a musician I have to respect there material to some extent. But I find it more fulfilling to write all of the music and to experience the making of everything lyrically and musically.

 

[nekkid]

"But, rappers are todays poets. I don't listen to rap or hip hop much anymore. But I use to rhyme and I know what it takes to create music"

OK, prove me wrong, show me some lyrics of a "meaningful" and "poetic" rap song. Today's poets? c'mon don't make me laugh. Rap lyrics are a god damn joke I could list 1000's of absurdly stupid ass rap lyrics from songs that the average 5th grader could write better.

Don't try to say that is the natural progression of music. Rap is a laughable shortcut. Don't confuse "being influenced" with "sampling" they are COMPLETELY different!

And Yes, rap is at the most glorified talking. Sorry that is all that it is.

"and the rappers arent doing the direct sampling they have engineers and producers taking care of that. All that the rappers seem to do is have beats made for them"

I somewhat agree with this. What do you mean by direct sampling? a sample is a sample. They aren't as heavily used anymore because it costs too much to get the rights to the songs from the original artist. (You could never have another Paul's boutique type album today)

Some rappers have engineers, some don't. Some engineers have a lot do with the beat making and writing. Others don't.

 

[hoppi]

Seems to you all see rap is a religion,like something you could lose your faith in.Incredible.
I am from Europe(from Germany to be exact) and our pop,rock and other charts (s)hits suck,but ....isn't rap just a subarea of MUSIC?
Come on,with the right PR comes the media image(remember J-LO and her Bronx?) comes the "status" in the biz comes the crying fans comes the fame comes the money.Maybe different order,but that's how it works today.

 

[Supafly]

OK, prove me wrong, show me some lyrics of a "meaningful" and "poetic" rap song. Today's poets? c'mon don't make me laugh.

Don't get confused. In my opinion 95% of rap is shit. But to say that art isn't art just because it's not the type of art you like is ridiculous.

You should check out The Roots. They even play their own instruments. I know, I know, it's crazy but it's true.

Rap lyrics are a god damn joke I could list 1000's of absurdly stupid ass rap lyrics from songs that the average 5th grader could write better.

Again, a lot of the commercial bullshit is just that. But in that sense the commercialization of rap/hip-hop is no different than the commercialization of Rock or Punk or any other Genre. I can list 1000 rock/punk/alternative songs (or any other kind of music) with absurdly stupid ass lyrics that the average 5th grader could write better.

Don't try to say that is the natural progression of music. Rap is a laughable shortcut. Don't confuse "being influenced" with "sampling" they are COMPLETELY different!

Thanks for the clarification there, but I never did confuse the two. There will always be people who aren't willing to ACCEPT (for you TYO) musical change. That's your prerogative. But, as an artist, I know when I see art even if it’s art I don’t like. .

 

[RichieTBaum]

Hey nekkid, guess what? I give up on trying to explain why sampling can be cool and why all rap isnt garbage. You obviously don't want to open up to the fact that some rap is good and you are taking offense to generalized comments that I've made.

The fact of the matter is, some rap songs suck ass and some rap songs are fucking awesome.
Where the beat came from doesn't really matter to me. As long as the rapper has a solid flow and the beat keeps my foot tapping, I am content.

Do I relate to platinum teeth, life in the hood, and dealing drugs as a kid? No.
Therefore, I either seek out rap songs with more meaningful lyrics, or I just disregard the lyrics and concentrate on the honeys at a club.

As far as new beats are concerned, you obviously haven't listened to material by NWA, Dr. Dre, or the Neptunes. Although albums by those artists may include songs with samples, many are COMPLETELY ORIGINAL with no samples at all. That seems to be your big hangup; your standards for an original song are pretty strict.

Are you going to say that "When the Levee Breaks" by Led Zeppelin is crap?
Would you say that "All Along the Watchtower" by Jimi Hendrix sucks?
Both songs are covers. Not only is the beat replicated in some way, but the lyrics generally stay the same as well.

Overall, while you are certainly entitled to your opinions, I am under no obligation to agree with them. In fact, I think you're wrong in the majority of cases.

Here are some suggestions:

1. Learn how to use the "quote" option when you wan to quote statements from a post.
2. Try not to use absolutes as much. Words that are absolutes include: "Always," "Never," and "Everything."
3. Do more research. For example, the lyrics in "Come with me" are not the same as in "Kashmir" and Jimmy Page even collaborated with Puffy on the track. Watch the video if you need proof.

 

[nekkid]

"As far as new beats are concerned, you obviously haven't listened to material by NWA, Dr. Dre, or the Neptunes. Although albums by those artists may include songs with samples, many are COMPLETELY ORIGINAL with no samples at all"


I doont know the neptunes. But name a "completely original" song by dre or nwa for me. Now don't forget "completely original" in capitol letters.


No I don't think that all along the watchtower and when the levee breaks, are crap. They are cover songs. I can't believe you are even making that comparison. WHat does that have to do with anything? No shit the lyrics and music is the same. ITS A COVER SONG!!! That is not what I am talking about.

Umm... i think you need to do more research. I NEVER (yes I used the forbidden word never) said the lyrics were thae same in "come with me". I said..

"Puff daddy took the exeact same beat from led zeppelin's kashmir and said "come with me" every once in a while."


I was basically saying that he was making a weird al yankovic song where he took the exact same song (musically) and made it new lyrics. Iknow Jimmy Page remade the song with him. It seems Led Zepelin will ell their music to anyone with enough cash now: Cadilac, the movie school of rock, and the worst case of all being the absolute awefulness of "come with me". It was a trajedy beyond all musical tragedies. There are a ton of people in the industry that have agreed with me on that one.

(and yes I do need to learn how to quote)

Supafly, I agree. I am not saying that rap is the only form of lyrics that spews out garbage. I guess that might have sounded like I did. But come on in my opinion 97% of it is garbage. Yes othe forms of music spew out complete shit as well. no doubt, but I am sure that you and I could give 1,000 of meaningful rock songs (and other music a well) with meaningful lyrics. Seriously though does anyone have some meaninful rap lyrics for me?

I knew that someone was going to bring up The Roots. The Roots IMO are a a rap hybrid. They have songs that sound like rap, and then some that definately don't. So that is a wash for me. Other groups like Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock, even Rage against the machine are hybrids in one fom or another.

But don't forget I would like someone to show me some original dr. dre and nwa, and some meaningful and poetic rap lyrics.

 

[RichieTBaum]

Man oh man...

Forgot About Dre, no samples
Explosive, no samples
Still D.R.E, one of my favorite rap beats ever, no samples
What's the Difference, no samples
The Next Episode, no samples

And it's not like those are obscure songs man....
All are from "The Chronic 2001" and most were hits.

Meaningful rap songs? How about:

The entire "Straight Outta Compton" album by NWA?
- this album was a landmark in portraying black life in the ghetto. While I don't necessarily relate to the stories that the lyrics tell, it doesn't change the fact that they are rivetng and butally honest. Do you want to learn about poverty, gang violence, and youth anger? Then listen to this album.

- songs by Public Enemy
-if you consider Rage Against the Machine rap (hybrid rap is still rap), try and tell me that their lyrics aren't meaningful.
- the new Kanye West album "Late Registration." He may be an outspoken fool, but his songs are fresh as hell.

My cover song example is so valid, that I laughed out loud when I saw that you had denounced it.
You have consistently stated that sampling is a talentless practice and that rap songs with samples are garbage. (Now I haven't quoted you on that stuff but I took the liberty of summarizing your overall view on sampling.) Covers are similar to samples in that an existing beat is being replicated in some way, shape, or form. When a rap artist samples a beat, he/she will usually use the beat as a backdrop to their original lyrics ( as I've stated clearly before). With covers, not only is the beat being replicated, but lyrics stay the same as well. Now I realize the purpose of a cover, but, based on your standards for rap sampling, it is entirely fair to assume that you would feel the same way about covers. Obviously, you have said that covers are different and that you don't feel the same way about them as rap songs. Regardless, it points out that your opinions on rap sampling etc. are very biased. Don't think that I am putting covers and rap songs with samples in the same category.

I NEVER (yes I used the forbidden word never) said the lyrics were thae same in "come with me". I said..
"Puff daddy took the exeact same beat from led zeppelin's kashmir and said "come with me" every once in a while."

Ok, ok, you got me on ONE thing. I meant to say beat instead of lyrics because the beat isn't exactly the same. Have you even listened to the song? And what does that "mistake" have to do with me doing research? (Nothing)

Also, Led Zeppelin is notorious for not letting movies or companies use their songs. It was indeed a money-move to allow Cadillac to use "Rock and Roll," but it was afterall just one song. I'll bet that Zep didn't think that Cadillac would use the song in practically every one of their commercials. Also, Jack Black himself had to plead and beg Zep to give clearance for "Immigrant Song" in the School of Rock. They had already filmed the scene and Led Zeppelin only approved after seeing it. The only thing I'll agree with is that "Come with me" is shit. There's no denying that.

Lastly, I brought up the Roots in my first post in this thread.
In that post, I also said that most of today's rap is garbage. While I will point out that G-Unit and other modern groups have plenty of original beats, it doesn't mean that I like them.

 

[Gibson]

nekkid, I think what you meant to say is, "97% of the rap I've heard is garbage". I feel the same way, but I'm always finding more and more rap/hip hop that I enjoy. You just have to be open to new things.

As for meaningful lyrics, I agree that it would be hard to find many rap songs that has the same depth in the words as in other genres. However, this is because in rap and hip hop, the words themselves are used as an instrument. They blend with the rest of the song. Try reading the lyrics to Pants on Fire by Buck 65, then listen to the song. There's probably a better example to prove my point, but this is the best I can think of right now.

With genres such as rock and country, after writing lyrics, all you have to do is pick a key, play the chords, and sing. It isn't always that easy and not always the case, but that's what it comes down to.

 

[nekkid]

"Man oh man...

Forgot About Dre, no samples
Explosive, no samples
Still D.R.E, one of my favorite rap beats ever, no samples
What's the Difference, no samples
The Next Episode, no samples"

This is going to be fun...

Forgot about dre... no samples... WRONG... That is a sample from the band "heart"

Xxplosive, no samples... WRONG... That is sampled from Isaac Hayes' "bumpy lament"

"Whats the difference?" no samples... wrong... Charles Aznavour's "Parce que tu crois"

The next episode... no samples... WRONG... David axelrod "the edge"

"Still dre"... (the favorite rap beat ever).... no samples... WRONG... david axelrod "interpolation", and "mental traveler"

And since we are on a dr. dre kick here. Why don't you do yourself a favor and download leon haywood's "Iwanna do something freaky to you" tell me which song that IS EXACTLY.

It looks like somebody didn't do their research did they?

"Meaningful rap songs? How about:

The entire "Straight Outta Compton" album by NWA?
- this album was a landmark in portraying black life in the ghetto. While I don't necessarily relate to the stories that the lyrics tell, it doesn't change the fact that they are rivetng and butally honest. Do you want to learn about poverty, gang violence, and youth anger? Then listen to this album."

I am very familiar with this album. I think it fails miserably in an attempt to show the ghetto's dark side. All it shows is that NWA is a group of very ocky arrogant, and ignorant people. Try these...


"
Artist: N.W.A. f/ the D.O.C.
Album: Straight Outta Compton
Song: Parental Discretion Iz Advised

(Dr. Dre)
1,2,3 Kick it

(The D.O.C.)
Hey yo, Dre, what's going on, man, what's going on
hey what'cha all gonna do for this last record
No, tell, what'cha all gonna do
Ok, you want me to do the intro, alright

Parental discretion is advised for the moment
While I'm getting candid, now understand it
Ain't too typical in any way, though the pro
On the mic is the D.O. to the C., this is an intro
I know the D.O.C. make ya want to takea valium
So buy a bucket 'cause I'm coming, it's my album
And for the record, meaning my record, check it
Listen to the single and you'll be like, yo, I gotta get it
But in the meantime, listen to the rhyme of the Dr. Dre
Played wit NWA
Yella's on the drum roll, rocking the beat
Hey yo Dre, where are you gonna take this s**t man"

Wow that is AMAZING!!! Bob dylan can move over. These guys are real poets!!

"-if you consider Rage Against the Machine rap (hybrid rap is still rap), try and tell me that their lyrics aren't meaningful.
- the new Kanye West album "Late Registration." He may be an outspoken fool, but his songs are fresh as hell."

Rage against the machine is a rock and roll band. period. Oscar de la roch sounds like he is rapping at times. That was my point.They do not sample. Therefore they are not rap.

Kanye west? Here are some lyrics from his newest song. golddigger.

"

Cutie the bomb
Met her at a beauty salon
With a baby Louis Vuitton
Under her underarm
She said I can tell you ROC
I can tell by ya charm
Far as girls you got a flock
I can tell by ya charm and ya arm
but I'm looking for the one
have you seen her
My psychic told me she'll have a ass like Serena
Trina, Jennifer Lopez, four kids
An I gotta take all they bad ass to show-biz
Ok get ya kids but then they got their friends
I pulled up in the Benz, they all got up in
We all went to Den and then I had to pay
If you fucking with this girl then you better be payed"

WOW!! I'm blown away. He must have spent 12 whole minutes on that one!!

I will quote chuck d

"Stay Free!: What are the origins of sampling in hip-hop?

Chuck D: Sampling basically comes from the fact that rap music is not music. It's rap over music."

There you go, Even Chuck fucking D says that "Rap is not music"

here is the link to that interview...

http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/archives/20/public_enemy.html

You have also stated that rapper's are not steal ing beats anymore. This was Mr. No sample Dr. Dre getting sued (and he lost) for umm... sampling...

http://news.dmusic.com/article/6658

 

[RichieTBaum]

Ok, where do I begin?

I will start off by saying that I was wrong in saying that the aforementioned Dr. Dre songs did not include samples. While I may have been wrong with my terminology, I will go back to a previous post to show that I still think you're wrong. So, look at this quote:

Plenty of rap artists make new beats and plenty use samples as a part of making a new beat. Your definition of a new beat is basically that every part of it must be original. IMO, a beat can be classified as new even if it includes parts of other beats or songs.

So, while the beat in "Xxplosive" is similar to the song "Bumpy's Lament," it is not exactly the same. This brings up the factor that sampling has multiple definitions. For example, the Beastie Boys will take an exact clip of a song and insert it into their beat. In the case of Xxplosive, Dr. Dre is sort of re-imaging the song, henceforth making it his own beat.

For comparison, Tim Burton remade "Planet of the Apes," but it wasn't exactly the same as the original film. So, would you say that Tim Burton stole the idea for the movie or that it took no talent to make the film becasue it wasn't an original idea? In my opinion, Tim Burton took existing material and morphed it into something new by using his own artistic vision/talent. What Burton did with "Planet of the Apes" is similar to what Dre did with Bumpy's Lament.

Also, I flatly disagree that "It's Like This and Like That" and " I Want'a Do Something Freaky to You" sound EXACTLY the same. While extremely similar, Dre's beat includes added elements which in effect, make the beat different.

As far as your opinions of "Straight Outta Compton" and NWA are concerned, many people disagree with you, including me (obviously).

even Rage against the machine are hybrids in one form or another.

Rage against the machine is a rock and roll band. period.

:question: Hmmm...looks like a contradiction to me.

Read this article. It mentions many concepts that I have brought up. One quote from it sums up much of what I have been trying to tell you: "Hip-hop has always thrived by improvising off recognizable works in a way that is one part invention and one part cultural commentary. "It's a postmodern art," writes hip-hop historian Nelson George, "in that it shamelessly raids older forms of pop culture. . .and reshapes the material to fit the personality of an individual artist and the taste of the times."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/07/AR2005050700154_pf.html

I wish I could stop here, but I must also say tha your example of Dre stealing a beat is BS. Did you even read the article? The case could potentially be thrown out and the jury only found him guilty of "innocent infringement. Doesn;t sound like a big deal to me; at least not as big a deal as you're trying to make it.

And in response to your quoting of Chuck "Fucking" D, you are not proving anything. I said pretty much the same thing in an earlier post:

Rappers commonly use samples as a means of invoking familiarity with an otherwise new song. In other words, the lyrics are what is new whereas the sample is the familiar backdrop to the song.

I'll end with two things,

ONE:

The fact of the matter is, some rap songs suck ass and some rap songs are fucking awesome. Where the beat came from doesn't really matter to me. As long as the rapper has a solid flow and the beat keeps my foot tapping, I am content.

and TWO:

:flipthebi

:moon:

 

[Duke E. Pyle]

You folks are going waaay too deep into this. You can make it out to be a class in rocket science to test its validity on whether its worthy enough to be considered good or not, but the fact is...it's only music no matter how long or at what angle you see it from, you either like it or you don't. Why is it surprising there are so many samples when its beggining started with 2 turntables and a microphone. The beats came from records. Everyones records.

 

[nekkid]

HAHAHAHAHA
I knew you would say something like this... I will quote you twice.

"So, while the beat in "Xxplosive" is similar to the song "Bumpy's Lament," it is not exactly the same"

. "I will admit that some rappers either suck at sampling or take it too far.
The only example that i can think of where stealing of a beat actually occured is "Ice, ice, Baby."
Vanilla Ice obviously took the beat from "Under Pressure" and things only got worse when he tried to explain how his beat wasn't the same."

You actually SOUND like Vanilla Ice when he denied he used that sample..

Vanilla Ice: "Yo dog thats a totally different beat. OUrs goes ding-ding-ding, da da ding ding, and theirs goes, ding ding ding da da ding"

Those dre songs are taken directly from those ORIGINAL songs that i mentioned. I think its funny when you claim that all those songs had NO SAMPLES, and were COMPLETELY ORIGINAL only because you never heard them before..

I'll quote myself ...

"Kashmir and puff daddy are both very popular. So you "know" the sample and the lyrics. Just because you haven't "heard " the sample before doesn't mean its original."

My last post proved that point. I also think that it is funny that you would say that Vanilla Ice "stole" his beats while you continue to support Dr. Dre and his non-stealing. Are you on Dre's payroll? There were "other elements" to Ice Ice baby as well, it doesn't change the fact that the god damn beats to ice ice baby and every other rap song are stolen in the same way.

"IMO, a beat can be classified as new even if it includes parts of other beats or songs"

So why was Vanilla Ice guilty and not dre? Its because you obviously thought that dre made those beats himself.

A movie remake is 100% different from sampling a song. A movie remake is the same thing as a cover song. I have no problem with either one. i would rather watch a new movie, but it doesn't bother me. If dr. dre would say here are the new songs on chronic 2001 that I covered:
the edge
bumpy's lament
parce que tu crois
mental traveler
I would not have a problem either. And neither would the people that sue him. The problem is is that dre (I'm not picking on dre, ALL I mean ALL rappers do this) puts this off as his own. I know why you automatically thought dre did not sample, its because you looked in the cd's liner notes and he did not list any samples. That annoys me.


"Also, I flatly disagree that "It's Like This and Like That" and " I Want'a Do Something Freaky to You" sound EXACTLY the same. While extremely similar, Dre's beat includes added elements which in effect, make the beat different."

Well, first of all the song is called "Nuthin' but a "g" thing". Second, you have got to be fucking kidding me. You probably think that dre's "added elemnts" are original as well. THEY are not. The part that goes "do do do do do do ...do do do do" over the leon haywood song is from a parliament song!!! 90% of g thing is EXACTLY the same as the original. Hey Vanilla Ice... Of the sample that dre stole which part does not sound exactly the same ..

"

Originally Posted by nekkid
even Rage against the machine are hybrids in one form or another.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkid
Rage against the machine is a rock and roll band. period.

"Rage against the machine is a rock and roll band. period. Oscar de la roch sounds like he is rapping at times. That was my point.They do not sample. Therefore they are not rap."

How else can I explain it. How about this. Rage comes up with their own music. They actually play it. They actually have talent. They have my full respect in every aspect. Oscar de la roch seems to be influenced by rap with his singing style. Thats it. So there is no point to me quoting their lyrics. It does not apply.

I will end with this. The middle fingers and the mooning that you provided at the end of your post were very intimidating. I had bad dreams all night that dr. dre and suge knight were gonna come and spray up my house for calling rappers hacks because of it.

The bottom line is you love rap abviosly but you defend it even if you are proven wrong which is annoying and stupid.

Yo Vanilla kick it one time boooooooooooooooooyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!

 

[Supafly]

Ok Nekkid. You don't like rap/hip hop that's understood. Your intitled to your opinion. But, lets not forget that's all it is.