Wrestling 2005

[phynix]

Hornswoggle? Another bit of genius writing from the Raw creative team and Vince, wrestling has reached a new low.

Cena vs Orton this sunday if Cena wins I will never watch anyform of wrestling again...ever!

 

[saeko nogami]

i think cena will drop the belt to hhh not orton,btw i'm also a cena hater

 

[-KA-]

I Think Unfortunately Cene is going to win But he'll lose the belt at Cyber Sunday

 

[-KA-]

When I read Unforgiven results it was like this:
RANDY ORTON DEF. JOHN CENA ( at this point I think I was the happiest wrestling fan in the world), but then I noticed - BY DQ (then I was like - noooooooooooooooooo) and Cena is still the champ.

 

[phynix]

Yes Cena is still the Champ man I'm getting sick of saying that - Last man standing at No mercy if orton doesn't win this one then I'm thinking managment screw job, they must want him to fail and have no credibility in any future matches!

 

[Stingray]

Considering I was wrong (dammit..I had a good streak going too!) and the bulk of the folks who were named on that list DID end up suspended, I wouldn't venture much on Orton being the champ during this angle. It's more likely that they'll have him job out to Cena until either HHH turns heel, HBK comes back to challenge again, Carlito gets a push, or Kennedy Returns from suspension.

Regardless, it's still one of the better angles/feuds the Raw/SMackdown part of the WWE has put on in a while. It's gotta be depressing to some of those guys that Kevin Thorn v. Stevie Richards seems to be earning more pops from the crowd than the last dozen or so IC title bouts I've seen. (exception of Hardy/Benjamin....great match.)

 

[phynix]

OK this plays on Raw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amhrHgD7Fs0

SAVE_US.222 in the video:

"Joshua 2:2 verse 2 It was told the king of Jericho, saying, "Behold, men from the sons of Israel have come here tonight to search out the land."

Y2J?

 

[bobobill]

Y2J was the first person I thought of when I saw that. The WWE must be have saw all the Save us Y2J signs on Raw the last few months.

 

[Kaneinite]

I hope to God that Y2J comes back! He'll hopefully make things a little bit better...if they don't screw it up...which they probably will! Yet we still watch WWE...but complain.

Does anyone know when Shawn Michaels is returning? I haven't heard anything.

 

[nekkid]

OMG that would be amazing if Y2J came back. If my memory serves me right John Cena retired him. Can you imagine the pop from the crowd and all of us at home if Y2J came back and ended Cena's bullshit title reign? Can you imagine if they relived his entrance on RAW (with the countdown) with the rock except this time with cena? Watch this it pumped me up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuIBehRYGyY&NR=1











Now.. back to reality. This isn't 1997-1999, the tv writing absolutely sucks. This won't happen. Sorry I just have to be honest.

 

[Stingray]

wait wait wait...you think the '97 writing was good? The year/era that brought us the infamous battles of DOA v. Los Boriquas? The incredible talents of Marvelous Marc Mero v. Butterbean and the horsefaced Debra as WWE Women's champ? The age that brought the downfall of the Hart Foundation in WWE, the rise of Chyna and the "Mr. Macmahon" character?

I (obviously) must disagree. Granted, what we've got now sucks, but I credit that just as much with lack of prep time as bad writing. The previous age had some time to build and got a good crop of ready-made upper midcarders handed to them by WCW (Benoit, Guerrero, Big Show, Jericho, etc...pre-buyout). Then they all got hurt/retired/died in the span of a year or two, and we got stuck with guys like Carlito, Lashley, Orton, and Batista to pick up the slack. Say what ya want about the bad writing now, its justified, but lets not make the dingleberry of 1997 into some sort of golden butt-nugget. It sucked back then too.

 

[-KA-]

/\ Agreed

Best time of wrestling was back at the early 2000s, when we had The Rock, SCSA, HHH, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit at their prime. We also had Goldberg and Lesnar. Plus we had Brother of Destruckion dominating Tag division, Edge and Chiristian, The Dudley Boys, The Hardys and APA. And Rey Mysterio was wrestling in cruiserweight division where he belongs.

 

[Stingray]

Indeed...except for the Goldberg part. Never agreed with how Goldberg was handled by WCW. They built him too huge, then when he finally did lose -- even with it being a screwjob loss -- nobody cared anymore. Now the guy thinks he should be paid the GNP of a small african nation to wrestle, so his career's effectively dead. I thought Lesnar was pushed into the main event a bit early too, but at least there was a reasonable build to that.

 

[saeko nogami]

wait wait wait...you think the '97 writing was good? The year/era that brought us the infamous battles of DOA v. Los Boriquas? The incredible talents of Marvelous Marc Mero v. Butterbean and the horsefaced Debra as WWE Women's champ? The age that brought the downfall of the Hart Foundation in WWE, the rise of Chyna and the "Mr. Macmahon" character?

I (obviously) must disagree. Granted, what we've got now sucks, but I credit that just as much with lack of prep time as bad writing. The previous age had some time to build and got a good crop of ready-made upper midcarders handed to them by WCW (Benoit, Guerrero, Big Show, Jericho, etc...pre-buyout). Then they all got hurt/retired/died in the span of a year or two, and we got stuck with guys like Carlito, Lashley, Orton, and Batista to pick up the slack. Say what ya want about the bad writing now, its justified, but lets not make the dingleberry of 1997 into some sort of golden butt-nugget. It sucked back then too.

not in wcw,wcw was plain awesome in 1997 with the NWO in its prime and great lower card and midcard talents and there was also a great build up to the hogan-sting starrcade match.

 

[nekkid]

I agree not everything from 97-99 was perfect. The fall of the Hart foundation? The HArt foundation got old and went to wcw (I am not getting into a screwjob argument). Butterbean and marc mero? Ya they sucked but show me a roster from top to bottom that doesn't have bad characters or wrestlers or angles.

-KA- I agree that on paper 200 probably had they best roster, but if I remember right that was the satrt of the inVasion angle that sent the WWE right down the shitter.

What is wrong with the Mr. Mcmahon character in 97-99? You didn't like when he flew off the top of the cage like HBK did in the St. Valentine's day Massacree match vs. Austin? You didn't like his promo with Mick Foley where Mr. Socko was born (bed pan Mcmahon), you didn't like AUSTIN VS. MCMAHON for christ sakes?


What about DX? Bret vs. Shawn. Austin vs. Pillman. Mick Foley's 3 characters developing. The Rock and sock connection. The TLC matches. Kurt Angle!! Y2J and his incredible entrance and promo with the Rock. The NWO in WCW was at its peak (Like Saeko said), they were re-inventing the business.

Yes Los Barricas vs. DOA is lame. So is Trevor and Murdock vs. Cryme time. I am just looking at the best that 97-99 had to offer, which I think blows the best of today's crap we watch now out of the water. The ratings from that time period compared to now (98-99) prove my point as well.

I mean look at the top angles on tv right now Cena and his dad vs. Orton? Hornswaggle? The Great f'n Khali? I would rather watch doa matches for 24 straight hours than watch Khali for 2 minutes.

This is a matter of personal preference. It's just hard for me to grasp that you would prefer todays writing than the late 90's.

 

[Stingray]

I just can't agree with that. The Mr. McMahon character was & is lame. The result of poor planning, by WWE's own admission, and one they could have & should have done away with ages ago. DX is tired, and got tired to me after a few months. Like the nWo, great in the short term, but there's no longevity. That's the problem I had with the Rock, as well...too much mouth, not enough in ring. (not that either of the principle DX guys have that particular in-ring problem.)

And again, you have too look at the whole picture. HHH, Austin, Angle, etc....the company had time to build these guys into something before they were expected to carry the company. You can't say that about Cena, Orton, Khali, etc. Half of them became champions because the guy before them got hurt or left, and the handful of people the company DID build well or had time to build well can't hold the title because everyone then opts to complain about that. HHH, for example...solid on the mic & in ring, probably the most capable guy they've got on Raw, but half the crowd would cry neoptism as soon as he got a title shot. Seriously.

I'm not saying the present day is any better than it was then, but I can't agree that it's any worse either. Sure, you had Rock/Austin -- about 8000 times over. No match is good enough to see as many times as we had to sit through that one. Or Austin/Helmsley, HHH/Rock, etc. The problem they had then is one that --thank god -- we don't see as much now: (the current Cena/Orton rivalry notwithstanding) the exact same match week in & week out for 4 fucking months. Or am I the only one that remembers Angle/Big Show/Lesnar back in '99/00?

As far as comparing the top angles now to then, how's this:
Cenas v. Orton = Casket Riding Big Show v. Big Boss Man
Hornswaggle = Al Snow's one-eyed Moose head, Pierre v. Head in a Hardcore match
Great Khali = The Ministry of Darkness (both being equal amounts of abnormally large and obsessively lame)

It's the same shit, just different names & brands.

 

[nekkid]

I see what you are saying in a sense. Watching any wrestler over and over you can almost predict what moves they will use in situations and what they will say in promo situations. Any wrestler, stable or storyline will get tired.

See a lot of what was lame in that list you wroye about the late 90's was funny to me. The big show riding the casket was hilarious. It was so absurd that I am still not sure if that segment was supposed to be serious or comical. Head in a hardcore match at least would garner a chuckle. The ministry just plain sucked, I agree.

I guess when it comes down to it, the original discussion was the tv writing. The biggest thing that I remember was during the late 90's you HAD to see RAW. It was must see tv week in and week out. Storylines advanced quickly, the storylines were planned out well in advance and usually had a good payoff. Now, it was not like this all the time, but for a good 2-3 year run in my opinion RAW was f'n awesome, 4-5 star shows almost week after week.

Sadly, things got old quickly. LIke you said, how many times can Sting fall from the rafters, how many times can HHH say suck it, how many times can Austin stun Mcmahon? But before it got old and was still fresh I thik it was gold.

While they are doing good things in todays shows, I just don't get that same feeling os 'I can't wait to see what they do next' when I watch now and really haven't felt it for many years. I hope it does change and soon. Does that make sense?

 

[nekkid]

Forgot one thing are you saying that the big show riding the casket was a top angle at one time? Comparable to Cena/Orton, which is the #1 angle? c'mon...

 

[saeko nogami]

the boring part is also due to eric bischoff giving ppv matches for free,wwe had to follow suit that's why you had hhh/rock/austin every week.They should have kept the big matches for ppv instead of giving them for free.

 

[-KA-]

I'm sorry to interrupt your little argument. But I have a question. Who was that woman who attacked Torrie Wilson last night on Smackdown?