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Wrestling 2005
- Thread starter Da' Pimp
- Start date
phynix
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Yes KA they did you see this way HHH has a even biggee reason to want the title and ven greater hate for Vince also this way it doesn't make Orton look like a transitional champion. If he had just been given the belt then his months of head kicking would have been for nothing now he fought HHH and lost, fought him again and won its makes for an more varied storyline and more depth to a fued that had very little heat when No Mercy started!
Stingray
Supreme Jackass
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nah...I'm sure if it was, they wouldn't have expanded on it less than an hour before the storyline's resolution.
Orton as champ is surprising, which doesn't happen too often these days. I'm not sure if I like it or not, really. There's decidedly more options on Raw for the heel champion, though. HHH, the possibly returning Jericho, HBK, an anti-hero Kennedy, Cena & Lashley when they come back...lot's of potential. More than a face champ would have.
Honestly, I'm just glad it's not Umaga. Khali was one worthless, non-speaking, lame-move using champion too many.
Orton as champ is surprising, which doesn't happen too often these days. I'm not sure if I like it or not, really. There's decidedly more options on Raw for the heel champion, though. HHH, the possibly returning Jericho, HBK, an anti-hero Kennedy, Cena & Lashley when they come back...lot's of potential. More than a face champ would have.
Honestly, I'm just glad it's not Umaga. Khali was one worthless, non-speaking, lame-move using champion too many.
saeko nogami
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finally wwe gave us a good ppv like in the good old days,maybe wrestling is not dead after all.With returning talent from injury and jericho coming we might see some good stuff........finally.
nekkid
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Do you guys think that jericho is coming back on Cyber Sunday? Those "cyber"-like numbers that flash on the screen, like the Matrix? Just a thought. I wish I still had the picture, but I think Jericho cut off all his hair. Have you guys seen that?
nekkid
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I read that Sci-fi channel is not very interested in renewing their contract for ecw even though it is their highest rated show. I think that ecw and smackdown will eventually merge into smackdown due to that situation.
IMO ecw sucked. It wouldn't have sucked as much if it wasn't called ecw. When people see those letters they expect a certain thing, and they definately don't get that when they watch the 'new' ecw. The only things that I will miss are:
-The occasional hardcore match
-Extreme expose. This is this first thing on a regular basis of its kind to my knowledge since the Nitro girls. I have read that Vince wants more hot chix on his programming. I agree. But why make them wrestle when they can't (with a few exceptions like Candice) ? Make them dress and dance slutty.
- I was thoroughly enjoying CM Punk vs. Jim (I mean)John Morrison. These two really brought the house down the last few times they wrestled. I don't think they would have had this opportunity on the other 2 brands.
IMO ecw sucked. It wouldn't have sucked as much if it wasn't called ecw. When people see those letters they expect a certain thing, and they definately don't get that when they watch the 'new' ecw. The only things that I will miss are:
-The occasional hardcore match
-Extreme expose. This is this first thing on a regular basis of its kind to my knowledge since the Nitro girls. I have read that Vince wants more hot chix on his programming. I agree. But why make them wrestle when they can't (with a few exceptions like Candice) ? Make them dress and dance slutty.
- I was thoroughly enjoying CM Punk vs. Jim (I mean)John Morrison. These two really brought the house down the last few times they wrestled. I don't think they would have had this opportunity on the other 2 brands.
phynix
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As I have said before ECW is not ECW its WWE presents ECW. I am amzed that one company can create something like the rise and fall of ECW DVD in such an amazing way that it is still there best selling DVD of all time and then..and then they go and destroy the memories the legacy the Extreme that was once so great I can't watch ECW because it hurts me so much. Paul E. I am so sorry your baby has died twice!
nekkid
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Yes, I couldn't agree more phynix. I do understand that they can't have every match be a hardcore match. That I understand because it does become stale and the injuries become to great, but that isn't what bothered me. What bothered me was how it started out a bit like the old ecw with the One night stand ppv's and even the first ecw on sci-fi's. Even the most hardcore ecw fan has to agree that one night stand was awesome.
Ecw did things different like having 2 wrestlers string a bunch of moves together, and bunch of cool looking reversals ect and then stand up and have the crowd cheer. It wasn't always violence for the sake of violence. The crowds were INSANE. The gimmicks and storylines were fresh and compelling.
Ecw started out on wwe tv with little flashes of the old ecw. That wetted my appetitite. Then it slowly turned into wwecw. Which now is a glorified Sunday night Heat.
having said that I truly believe that Vince only signed Heyman to a contract so that he wouldn't be lured into starting another company like a tna because Vince knows that Paul would have succeeded witha financial backing. I really can't see ecw beinga better show than RAW, Vince just wouldn't allow it. It just sucks.
I wonder what would happen if Heyman was approached by someone like a ted turner and they said "Here Paul, run my tv program, use your creativity and I'll take care of the business aspect." That would be very interesting.
Ecw did things different like having 2 wrestlers string a bunch of moves together, and bunch of cool looking reversals ect and then stand up and have the crowd cheer. It wasn't always violence for the sake of violence. The crowds were INSANE. The gimmicks and storylines were fresh and compelling.
Ecw started out on wwe tv with little flashes of the old ecw. That wetted my appetitite. Then it slowly turned into wwecw. Which now is a glorified Sunday night Heat.
having said that I truly believe that Vince only signed Heyman to a contract so that he wouldn't be lured into starting another company like a tna because Vince knows that Paul would have succeeded witha financial backing. I really can't see ecw beinga better show than RAW, Vince just wouldn't allow it. It just sucks.
I wonder what would happen if Heyman was approached by someone like a ted turner and they said "Here Paul, run my tv program, use your creativity and I'll take care of the business aspect." That would be very interesting.
Stingray
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There were 4 contributing factors to the irreperable damage that's been done to the ECW brand. In order they were:
1.) RVD's self destruction. They were going to leave the title on RVD for a while, build a feud with someone and have him drop it the old fashioned way. His drug charge rushed the company way ahead of itself, and threw all the plans out of whack.
2.) Over-built Big Show. Big Show suffered from the Goldberg-syndrome. They built the "Extreme Giant" too well, and to a point where nobody on the roster could take him down. Then they had to bring someone in to do it, and shoehorned Lashley into the World Title to take over for the injured Show. Officially, that's where the ratings dip began. (Seriously...I looked it up the other night.)
3.) Heyman/Vince blow up. McMahon dipped his hands a little too deeply, and forced Paul out, and a LOT of the ECW faithful went with him.
4.) Too many crossover stars. They should've left the new faces and the originals alone. Keep the Sandman and the Majors etc on the show, leave Lashley, Boogeyman, Miz, etc on their shows. They drew a few folks in with the crossing over, sure, but they lost just as many when they dropped originals into other programming.
Side note: Calling it Heat really is a disservice to some of the guys on ECW that actually have talent. Granted, that's not the longest of lists, but lets give 'em credit for doing what they can do with what's before them.
Now, fixing ECW, likewise, really is a simpler thing than the WWE will give itself credit for, and is quite unlikely because Vince seems hellbent on making his problems worse before better.
1.) Get Heyman back. Bring Paul back and you get more originals back in the process. Shell out a few bucks and bring guys like Tanaka & Shinzaki over from Japan to resume their ECW careers, and I guarantee you build the fanbase. But it all comes down to Heyman. Not general manager Heyman, behind the scenes, leather-coat wearing Paul E. That's the guy that should've been running things from the start.
2.) Get the originals back on the right show. Sure, Sandman's gone, but what About Super-Crazy? Yeah, RVD's on sabbatical from wrestling (which likely changes when Heyman comes back), but why not give Rey something to do? Old school ECW guys bring old school ECW fans.
3. Hardcore. Once a week, extreme rules. All title matches - Extreme Rules. Give the show it's own identity, and give the brand its identity back, while still progressing to a blended WWE/ECW product.
4. Breakaway from WWE. Present it as it's own product, with a match or two on the big four PPV's only. Let ECW be ECW, as self-sufficient as you can make it. That's the only way the brand is going to work on the long-haul. Raw's identity is based in entertainment, Smackdown's always had more of an in-ring focus. Let ECW cover the shoots, both in-ring & on the mic, and you'll have a winner. Punk is a good example of an old ECW champion, so they're sort of headed in the right direction, they just seem too frightened to take that last leap.
Do that stuff in that order and you've got a successful product that covers all the aims it needs to.
Of course, it's simple, so WWE will never actually do it.
1.) RVD's self destruction. They were going to leave the title on RVD for a while, build a feud with someone and have him drop it the old fashioned way. His drug charge rushed the company way ahead of itself, and threw all the plans out of whack.
2.) Over-built Big Show. Big Show suffered from the Goldberg-syndrome. They built the "Extreme Giant" too well, and to a point where nobody on the roster could take him down. Then they had to bring someone in to do it, and shoehorned Lashley into the World Title to take over for the injured Show. Officially, that's where the ratings dip began. (Seriously...I looked it up the other night.)
3.) Heyman/Vince blow up. McMahon dipped his hands a little too deeply, and forced Paul out, and a LOT of the ECW faithful went with him.
4.) Too many crossover stars. They should've left the new faces and the originals alone. Keep the Sandman and the Majors etc on the show, leave Lashley, Boogeyman, Miz, etc on their shows. They drew a few folks in with the crossing over, sure, but they lost just as many when they dropped originals into other programming.
Side note: Calling it Heat really is a disservice to some of the guys on ECW that actually have talent. Granted, that's not the longest of lists, but lets give 'em credit for doing what they can do with what's before them.
Now, fixing ECW, likewise, really is a simpler thing than the WWE will give itself credit for, and is quite unlikely because Vince seems hellbent on making his problems worse before better.
1.) Get Heyman back. Bring Paul back and you get more originals back in the process. Shell out a few bucks and bring guys like Tanaka & Shinzaki over from Japan to resume their ECW careers, and I guarantee you build the fanbase. But it all comes down to Heyman. Not general manager Heyman, behind the scenes, leather-coat wearing Paul E. That's the guy that should've been running things from the start.
2.) Get the originals back on the right show. Sure, Sandman's gone, but what About Super-Crazy? Yeah, RVD's on sabbatical from wrestling (which likely changes when Heyman comes back), but why not give Rey something to do? Old school ECW guys bring old school ECW fans.
3. Hardcore. Once a week, extreme rules. All title matches - Extreme Rules. Give the show it's own identity, and give the brand its identity back, while still progressing to a blended WWE/ECW product.
4. Breakaway from WWE. Present it as it's own product, with a match or two on the big four PPV's only. Let ECW be ECW, as self-sufficient as you can make it. That's the only way the brand is going to work on the long-haul. Raw's identity is based in entertainment, Smackdown's always had more of an in-ring focus. Let ECW cover the shoots, both in-ring & on the mic, and you'll have a winner. Punk is a good example of an old ECW champion, so they're sort of headed in the right direction, they just seem too frightened to take that last leap.
Do that stuff in that order and you've got a successful product that covers all the aims it needs to.
Of course, it's simple, so WWE will never actually do it.
nekkid
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2004
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- 500
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- 38
Good points.
What I meant by a glorified Sunday night Heat was how the show was being treated recently, I didn't mean anything against the talent. With Angle, RVD, Punk, and many others on the show it obviously was not SNH it was just treated like a 'C" show. (only 1 hour, one belt, on sci-fi, 1ppv a year ect)
Yes, Paul Heyman needs to run the show, but Paul tried that and he wasn't allowed to do the things he wanted, because, like you said, the WWE won't let him.
If WWE wanted to start a new show the should have just given it a new name like they did with Smackdown. Even Heyman said that you can'y re-invent ecw, it was a revolution.
I compare it to Axl Rose firing all his band members, bringing in new ones and calling it Guns N' Roses. That is NOT GNR that is Axl singing GNR Karioke IMO. Maybe not the greatest example but I think you get what I mean.
Although, like I said before we did get SOME good out of it. I think the 2 One night stands were awesome. Especially the first one. That was as authentic as it gets. It was at Hammerstein, unedited language, INSANE crowd, Joey Styles announcing, most of the original roster, and match quality was very high and almost exactly the same flow and structure as an original ecw ppv. Plus, how great was the sign "If Cena wins we riot" and seeing Cena lose to a much over due RVD (even though he completely dropped the ball like you said).
Well they tried to keep ecw alive as long as possible but hopefully it gets a respectful burial in the end.
R.I.P
EC f'n W
What I meant by a glorified Sunday night Heat was how the show was being treated recently, I didn't mean anything against the talent. With Angle, RVD, Punk, and many others on the show it obviously was not SNH it was just treated like a 'C" show. (only 1 hour, one belt, on sci-fi, 1ppv a year ect)
Yes, Paul Heyman needs to run the show, but Paul tried that and he wasn't allowed to do the things he wanted, because, like you said, the WWE won't let him.
If WWE wanted to start a new show the should have just given it a new name like they did with Smackdown. Even Heyman said that you can'y re-invent ecw, it was a revolution.
I compare it to Axl Rose firing all his band members, bringing in new ones and calling it Guns N' Roses. That is NOT GNR that is Axl singing GNR Karioke IMO. Maybe not the greatest example but I think you get what I mean.
Although, like I said before we did get SOME good out of it. I think the 2 One night stands were awesome. Especially the first one. That was as authentic as it gets. It was at Hammerstein, unedited language, INSANE crowd, Joey Styles announcing, most of the original roster, and match quality was very high and almost exactly the same flow and structure as an original ecw ppv. Plus, how great was the sign "If Cena wins we riot" and seeing Cena lose to a much over due RVD (even though he completely dropped the ball like you said).
Well they tried to keep ecw alive as long as possible but hopefully it gets a respectful burial in the end.
R.I.P
EC f'n W
phynix
Staff Alumn
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- Feb 15, 2004
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- 1,109
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- 8,632
ECW saved - Sci-Fi renew contact for 2008 - Why?
Looks like were gonna have more and more share between Smack Down and ECW this isnt good for anyone! All it does is make the shows all the more confusing and add more fire to the "Please don't make ECW any worse than it already is" argument.
Ric Flair still with WWE waiting for creatibe to have a decrnt story for him to use - OK what do we think of flair should he bow out quietly or retire with the fan fair the parade and 10 big matches over 6 months leading to a wrestlemania moment and a lot of tears? What I'm sure that we fans can think of hundred better ideas that the stupid creative team at WWE.
Candice up to the top now and..OWNED by the mat! Nasty fall cracked Clavical out for 8 weeks!
Expect to see a few roster changes coming up soon as well.
Looks like were gonna have more and more share between Smack Down and ECW this isnt good for anyone! All it does is make the shows all the more confusing and add more fire to the "Please don't make ECW any worse than it already is" argument.
Ric Flair still with WWE waiting for creatibe to have a decrnt story for him to use - OK what do we think of flair should he bow out quietly or retire with the fan fair the parade and 10 big matches over 6 months leading to a wrestlemania moment and a lot of tears? What I'm sure that we fans can think of hundred better ideas that the stupid creative team at WWE.
Candice up to the top now and..OWNED by the mat! Nasty fall cracked Clavical out for 8 weeks!
Expect to see a few roster changes coming up soon as well.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2004
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And here's the vid!
http://rapidshare.com/files/64842240/CandiceMichellealmostdies.mov.html
or streaming http://celebri-net.com/main/2007/10/24/candice-michelle-almost-dies-live-on-raw/
Why did the ref just let the other behemoth drag her like a fucking ragdoll?
phynix
Staff Alumn
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Safest thing to do was drag her, ref wasn't to know how bad she was hurt. At least that way her body was kept straight and futher injury was kept at a minimum.
Nasty fall but she's a tough cookie she'll be pack in playboy before we know it!
Nasty fall but she's a tough cookie she'll be pack in playboy before we know it!
